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« Last edited by jj1000 on April 20, 2017, 04:27:32 PM »

Author Topic: Shlichus Addiction?  (Read 17413 times)

Offline Dan

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Shlichus Addiction?
« on: November 17, 2011, 08:46:49 PM »
http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=39112

Personally I agree with the Op-Ed.  Chabad yeshivas glorify something that is simply not attainable anymore unless you marry a head shliach's daughter, are gezhe/ultra-wealthy/very well connected, or are willing to go on shlichus to a 2-bit college campus or Antarctica.

And I agree with the author's assertion that b/c of the shlichus or bust indoctrination over 8 years in the chabad system that the vast majority who don't go on shlichus put too much focus on the gashmius because they'll never be looked up to in ruchnius as they're not shluchim. 
Or else they focus on how many ways to live off the government while waiting for years in crown heights dreaming that the perfect shlichus spot will magically appear.

As the author says, why didn't we ever hear a businessperson farbreng or even just talk to us for a few minutes while in yeshiva?

Disagree?  Let's hear it!
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Offline yaakov s

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2011, 09:02:00 PM »
While not commenting on the entire article but...

Addiction ? Rabbi Dr Twerski  ::) come on

Unless of course the only thing to do while you wait around is drink a few L'chaims and then some  ;)

You already ranted about it in 2 places I found one http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=5737.msg75002#msg75002 where is the other?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 09:13:11 PM by yaakov s »

Offline jj1000

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2011, 09:12:06 PM »
One of the best descriptions of "the shlichus system" that I have heard is explaining it as a ponzi scheme. The basic idea being that along time ago there were plenty of not frum people to mekarev and plenty of money so everyone was happy and shluchim were able to hire other shluchim, but now that there are not as many willing "mikuravim" to chabad and for sure not as many places with out shluchim, the scheme is coming to an abrupt end and can not grow anymore or it will collapse. This is how a non-lubavitcher explained it to me roughly.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 09:41:09 PM by jj1000 »
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Offline yaakov s

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2011, 09:14:08 PM »
One of the best descriptions of shlichus that I have heard is explaining it as a ponzi scheme. The basic idea being that along time ago there were plenty of not frum people to mekarev and plenty of money so everyone was happy and shluchim were able to hire other shluchim, but now that there are not as many willing "mikuravim" to chabad and for sure not as many places with out shluchim, the scheme is coming to an abrupt end and can not grow anymore or it will collapse. This is how a non-lubavitcher explained it to me roughly.
Wow 2 of Dans pet peeves mixed in one Shlichus and Ponzi/MLM

Offline Dan

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2011, 09:22:51 PM »
Wow 2 of Dans pet peeves mixed in one Shlichus and Ponzi/MLM

G-d forbid that shlichus is a pet peeve of mine.  Most do incredible work and deserve all the respect in the world.

It's the system that makes 2 classes of chabad chassidim that I have a pet peeve with.

While not commenting on the entire article but...

Addiction ? Rabbi Dr Twerski  ::) come on

Unless of course the only thing to do while you wait around is drink a few L'chaims and then some  ;)

You already ranted about it in 2 places I found one http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=5737.msg75002#msg75002 where is the other?
The author clarified in comment 16 what he meant by addiction.

If you disagree please present logical arguments as to why you disagree without the need for hyperbole.
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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 10:01:26 PM »
G-d forbid that shlichus is a pet peeve of mine.  Most do incredible work and deserve all the respect in the world.

It's the system that makes 2 classes of chabad chassidim that I have a pet peeve with.
And I thought it was quite clear what I was referring to , not the act of kiruv but what you refer to as the system.
Quote
The author clarified in comment 16 what he meant by addiction.

If you disagree please present logical arguments as to why you disagree without the need for hyperbole.
Him backtracking and watering down the usage of addiction clarifies it.

 I believe that the definition of addiction refers to an overwhelming physical craving for something e.g. drugs , gambling , internet ,even shopping . Which even when you want to stop you just cant . Its something that destroys people and families. Does the author really think that every morning  Chabadnikim around the world wake up and say today I will break free , yet neurologically they are propelled toward another day of turning the pages of who knows what ? I highly doubt it. It sounds like a serious issue of peer pressure , bad planning , misguided advice . Similar to the Litvishe worlds Kollel issue and the Chasidisher worlds job training issue . ( Sorry MO not familier with your world) Very important communal problems, and if not addressed can and has caused many problems. Yet no one thinks that one is addicted to Flaums delivery truck driving or B &H or addicted to "officially"staying in learning.

While in conversation ,when used liberally, it might pass muster  . When you are trying to write about something you perceive to be a serious communal issue , using hyperbole like addiction doesnt strengthen your message but weakens it. When he quoted Dr Twerski he tried doing that , nonwithstanding him whitewashing it later on.

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2011, 11:30:29 PM »
A Chasidisher Yungerman straight out of Kolel can't get a job earning more than 8 dollars an hour these days, unless he schleps to B & H; there too I am not sure if he will be making more than that. I therefore think that this Op-ed intertwines heavily with the recent college op-ed's.

BTW, is it because this is a serious issue in your eyes that it did not get posted in JS?

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2011, 11:36:47 PM »
I therefore think that this Op-ed intertwines heavily with the recent college op-ed's.

BTW, is it because this is a serious issue in your eyes that it did not get posted in JS?

both points +1

good comment on crownheights.info

But my child's shidduch!?! Who will want to marry our bochurim if they aren't the best? There will always be some condescending attitude towards those who don't call themselves shluchim.. Let's not fool ourselves. Our dogmatic lifestyles have led us to focus on “shlichus” “chassidishkeit” and various other stigmas. Meanwhile the many of those in lubavitch have completely forgotten about real life. That is, life's difficulties as they present themselves. Ironically, this article reffers to shlichus as an addiction.
Well addiction just happens to be one of those “issues” that get slipped under the rug in our community.
Quit fantasizing. Get a job. Those who should get shlichus will in fact do just that. Everyone else, provide for your families some other way. Don't worry, your're not bad if you don't go on shlichus. Hashem's plan is always better than ours.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 11:46:17 PM by jj1000 »
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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2011, 04:15:11 AM »
http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=39112


And I agree with the author's assertion that b/c of the shlichus or bust indoctrination over 8 years in the chabad system that the vast majority who don't go on shlichus put too much focus on the gashmius because they'll never be looked up to in ruchnius as they're not shluchim. 


I never thought of it this way. That's a very interesting observation.

I think the (anon) author makes some good points, but calling it an addiction makes him lose credibility.
I don't usually turn to CH.info for my news either. It's a pretty sick and hateful site which mixes some good into it to get validity.

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2011, 08:45:41 AM »
It's a pretty sick and hateful site which mixes some good into it to get validity.
Any more than col?
I don't go to either anymmore, but a link to this was posted on FB.
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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2011, 09:38:24 AM »
Any more than col?

Yes, much worse then COLlive. The latter are more responsible in what they post. I'm not a big fan of them either, but the best thing they've done so far is make another news outlet which take the masses away from CH.info.

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2011, 08:16:11 PM »
I don't go to either anymmore, but a link to this was posted on FB.

Care to share why? -I don't either.

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2011, 08:20:13 PM »
Care to share why? -I don't either.

It's a tabloid... At least avak-lh"r IMHO.
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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2011, 08:25:37 PM »
Yeah, I didn't like how collive pushes an agenda.

They edit comments! Try writing something that doens;t fit with the Chabad-light model their trying to project and the'll simply delete it!

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2012, 01:18:47 PM »
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