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ExGingi: Good morning Dan, how's you day going?

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ExGingi: Wrong. Bh you woke up, thanks to Hashem as explained in modeh ani and even more in depth in inyanei shel toras hachasidus. If you would understand that sicha properly you would know that one doesn't simply wake up, it's not us who wake up, but rather thanks to the brachas of the rebbe and Hashem's help we wake up.
« Last edited by jj1000 on April 20, 2017, 04:27:32 PM »

Author Topic: Shlichus Addiction?  (Read 14231 times)

Online aygart

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #210 on: April 21, 2017, 08:46:01 AM »
My uneducated guess is that the reason chabadskers struggle so much with this directive, is because it is contradicted by the general chabbad directive to "get out there and mingle"...

In beney berak for eg, there is no such contradiction. Educational institutions are dedicated only to Torah study, preparing students for a life dedicated to Torah study. It's simple.
All that means is to find a proper balance.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #211 on: April 21, 2017, 09:50:30 AM »
All that means is to find a proper balance.
Walking a tightrope over the Grand Canyon is easy. All it needs is finding a proper balance.
Quote from: Freddie
@Yehuda57, that is the best post ever.

Offline farmbochur

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #212 on: April 21, 2017, 10:21:45 AM »
Yup, and going to a mesivta like PIT sets one up for failure. No appreciation for hashem, his torah, or the awareness that אין עוד מלבדו.
Because other mesivtas and Zal only have 100% unadulterated לימוד תורה.
Having gone to pit, do you feel that you were on the same level of learning as your classmates when you entered LA? I definitely wasn't. Given the lackluster secular curriculum at pit (and most other chabad mesivtas offering secular edu), is it really worth forgoing a serious סדר גרסא (instead of just 40 min with הרב) so you can draw maps with Mr J and talk football with Mr ski?

With the options practically available, I don't think getting a GED post smicha plus you that far behind (if at all) a chabad high school graduate.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 10:28:36 AM by farmbochur »
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Offline Dan

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #213 on: April 21, 2017, 10:30:20 AM »
Having gone to pit, do you feel that you were on the same level of learning as your classmates when you entered LA? I definitely wasn't. And given the lackluster secular curriculum at pit (and most other chabad mesivtas offering secular edu), is it really worth forgoing the a serious סדר גרסא (instead of just 40 min with הרב) so you can draw maps with Mr J and talk football with Mr ski?
Now we're getting to the meat of the matter. Some years we had great teachers and rabbeim, other years we didn't. Harav and Rabbi Green were great, though the latter was long gone when you were around.

But yes, I do have a problem with the lackluster curriculum. There's no reason it has to be that way and if there are no better solutions to the issue within 5 years from now maybe I'll do something about that myself.

It took some time in LA, but did catch up with the "Chicago guys" who had a very strong l"k background within a few months there.

I don't think that I'd have a 3.98 mba gpa without having gone to pit, but who knows.
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Offline farmbochur

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #214 on: April 21, 2017, 10:34:12 AM »


There's no reason it has to be that way and if there are no better solutions to the issue within 5 years from now maybe I'll do something about that myself.

Waiting with bated breath
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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #215 on: April 21, 2017, 11:02:02 AM »
Chosid.  The mishna was written over a thousand years before the Baal Shem Tov.  The "chassidim harishonim" in the mishna in brachos were not the maggid of mezeritch.  There is no reason to believe they would have felt more at home in Lubavitch than in Vilna.
i did not realize when you said this
Isn't like the whole point of chassidus that you can be a simple farmer and still be a chossid and a tzaddik, unlike the loony litvaks where being a talmid chochom was only accessible to the elite?
you meant the modern day chosid

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #216 on: April 21, 2017, 11:19:41 AM »
Isn't like the whole point of chassidus that you can be a simple farmer and still be a chossid and a tzaddik, unlike the loony litvaks where being a talmid chochom was only accessible to the elite?
Becoming a talmud chochom is accessible to all.
Hillel mechayev aniyim, r Eliezer mechayev ashirim

Offline lechatchileh ariber

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #217 on: April 21, 2017, 11:30:29 AM »
Not sure,  but I've gathered from the discussion on the last few pages that its a chosson teacher.
You been listening to Aaron moss lectures?
I don't sin, I give myself opportunities to repent.

Online aygart

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #218 on: April 21, 2017, 11:34:19 AM »
Walking a tightrope over the Grand Canyon is easy. All it needs is finding a proper balance.
Finding the right balance for things is never easy, but that is with millions of aspects of life. This may be something which involved more of a fine line  and delicate balance for Lubavitch, but there are other things which other groups have a difficult time finding the precise balance. To make the need for a proper balance into a contradiction is disingenuous.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline henche

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #219 on: April 21, 2017, 11:49:51 AM »
Becoming a talmud chochom is accessible to all.
Hillel mechayev aniyim, r Eliezer mechayev ashirim

Is hillel mechayev everyone to learn torah, or to become a talmid chochom? I'd assume the former. 


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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #220 on: April 21, 2017, 01:55:59 PM »
My uneducated guess is that the reason chabadskers struggle so much with this directive, is because it is contradicted by the general chabbad directive to "get out there and mingle"...

In beney berak for eg, there is no such contradiction. Educational institutions are dedicated only to Torah study, preparing students for a life dedicated to Torah study. It's simple.
Not "to get out there and mingle" but more to balance an educational institute where those less observant will feel welcome and can grow from those more observant while at the same time those more observant don't lose out from being on a lower level.

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #221 on: April 21, 2017, 03:00:04 PM »
Is hillel mechayev everyone to learn torah, or to become a talmid chochom? I'd assume the former.
What's the point of learning if not to become a talmid chacham, right?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #222 on: April 21, 2017, 03:13:12 PM »
What's the point of learning if not to become a talmid chacham, right?
Are you being facetious?

The next morning after the גאולה האמיתית והשלימה is here, we're all sitting and learning Torah. Is that in order to become a Talmid Chochom?

Offline whYME

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #223 on: April 21, 2017, 03:28:39 PM »
The next morning after the גאולה האמיתית והשלימה is here, we're all sitting and learning Torah.
The next morning might be pushing it a bit. we'll probably still be farbrenging

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #224 on: April 22, 2017, 10:30:20 PM »
Becoming a talmud chochom is accessible to all.
Hillel mechayev aniyim, r Eliezer mechayev ashirim

Is hillel mechayev everyone to learn torah, or to become a talmid chochom? I'd assume the former.
Logically, Hillel would obligate one in his similar financial situation to reach his maximum spiritual potential just as Hillel did. -That would definitely qualify a title talmid chochom.

(Not to say that one would actually be Hilllel... - R naftali Amsterdam to R Yisroel Salanter one purim: "if only I had the middos of Rebbi, the hartz of the yesod veshoresh havoda, and the kop of the shaagas Aryeh. Then I would....."

R Yisroel: " - ניין! מיט דיין הערץ, מיט דין קאף etc.. "

So one can reach high levels of limud hatorah, Hillel and R Elazar exclude financial position as a factor.
What's the point of learning if not to become a talmid chacham, right?
The point of learning torah is learning Torah.

Since orayso vekudsha brich hu Chad, this is how a Jew connects to gd.


There is also a mitzva chiyuvis of yedias hatorah (that at least according to the shulchan oruch harav is a quite literal​ positive obligation upon everyone to know all of the Torah...! iirc he takes a very stringent position on this one)

So naturally one would also strive to become a talmid chacham through said learning. But it is not necessarily one and the same.

Are you being facetious?

The next morning after the גאולה האמיתית והשלימה is here, we're all sitting and learning Torah. Is that in order to become a Talmid Chochom?
Umalah haaretz deah kamayim... It won't even be an "illitist thing".