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Author Topic: Shlichus Addiction?  (Read 20704 times)

Offline Yungerman

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Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2014, 01:45:26 AM »
Because in case you didn't realize there ain't no more shlichus spots open.

If you want a shot at a real career you need a good english background. Otherwise they'll prob join the rest of the farmers...

I understand that shlichus dynamics have drastically shifted in the past 5-8 years. That doesn't really negate the Rebbe's unequivocal position that the option to learn english in mesivta/zal isn't optimal, and that its sole inclusion was purposed to give those bochurim who's parents wouldn't let them enter yeshiva without it a chance to learn Torah. I acknowledge that this subject isn't relevant to this thread and is beyond its scope.

Offline Dan

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Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2014, 01:46:40 AM »
-100
If you want to be a professional with a guaranteed income you need that background.
Sure you can make a living without being a professional, but not all are cut out to be entrepreneurs.

Chabad is never going to be LW with a support system for people to learn for decades.  Without shlichus opportunities there are way too many young guys who get married without career prospects.
But at least they learned full time in mesivta...
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Offline Yungerman

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Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2014, 01:49:10 AM »
-1/2
The turn-around started in '98 when the few "locals" who were still frum and in yeshivah were quite chasidish + there was a good group of guys who came in.
In '99 Rabbi Shapiro came which I believe was another major step forward.

This whole group left after '99, I don't really know what happened between then and when you came, but I guess everyone from those days was replaced with a new crop of "locals"

Ahh, Rabbi Shapiro, one of the most caring Mashpiim around. He used to call into his office every bochur at least every other week and make sure everything from learning to pocket change was in order.

Offline whYME

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2014, 01:53:15 AM »
If you want to be a professional with a guaranteed income you need that background.
Sure you can make a living without being a professional, but not all are cut out to be entrepreneurs.
1. Not all are cut out to be professionals either.
2. Someone without that background can easily catch up if he decides later on he wants to go down this path.

gtg, I'll elaborate tomorrow iy"h

Offline Yungerman

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Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2014, 01:54:02 AM »
If you want to be a professional with a guaranteed income you need that background.
Sure you can make a living without being a professional, but not all are cut out to be entrepreneurs.

Chabad is never going to be LW with a support system for people to learn for decades.  Without shlichus opportunities there are way too many young guys who get married without career prospects.
But at least they learned full time in mesivta...

There are many professions that don't require a formal secular education backround, such as software and real estate. Entrepreneurship can be manifested in selling merchandise etc. There's plenty of options available.

Remember, once settled with a family, full time learning isn't feasible on average. Might as well chap arein in the prime of one's life.

Offline Dan

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2014, 01:55:01 AM »
+1
that's a great compliment for a mesivta rebbe :)  especially considering it's a transitional,
yet pivotal age of growth and crucial transformation; even more so in this decade.
    How many clones?
For starters PIT has never had an acceptable rebbe for 10th grade.
Rabbi YD and Rabbi CF were my teachers and they never showed up to class an entire year. RCF couldn't even translate the derech mitzvoscha even when he did show up and he was only there because he married within and needed a paycheck.  Shameful.  From what I've heard throughout the years it's consistently a massive hole there.

It's a shame that Billy is happy with the status quo in PIT.  It has the potential to be so much more than what it is now by adding some new judiaca staff and getting serious about english.  Because the worst thing is to spend the time with english but not make the effort that the teachers are up to par to giving a world class education.
The real killer is the nepotistic appointments.  Always has been.  It's petty and harmful in the long-run to the school's rep and the city's rep.

Makes me want to open competition and show PIT how it's done but I don't have billy's pockets.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 01:58:02 AM by Dan »
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Offline CS1

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Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2014, 01:58:10 AM »
There are many professions that don't require a formal secular education backround, such as software and real estate.
Entrepreneurship can be manifested in selling merchandise etc. There's plenty of options available.

Remember, once settled with a family, full time learning isn't feasible on average. Might as well chap arein in the prime of one's life.
software, real estate, and entrepreneurship can definitely use a high school diploma.
(The bachelor's degree may be optional, if you wish, but attending an accredited high school is the law in some states....)
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Offline Dan

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2014, 02:00:10 AM »
I understand that shlichus dynamics have drastically shifted in the past 5-8 years.

I acknowledge that this subject isn't relevant to this thread and is beyond its scope.
Without a solution to a new problem post-gimmel tamuz you are writing off thousands to lives of shnorring and relying on their spouse's meager teaching salaries.

This merge is a bit of a stretch for this topic, but I think that it's within the theme.  Might split it off again onto it's own topic.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Dan

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2014, 02:00:46 AM »
Ahh, Rabbi Shapiro, one of the most caring Mashpiim around. He used to call into his office every bochur at least every other week and make sure everything from learning to pocket change was in order.
Loved him to pieces when I was there.  But the second you're gone he doesn't remember you.  Heard the same from many others.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2014, 02:04:47 AM »
1. Not all are cut out to be professionals either.
2. Someone without that background can easily catch up if he decides later on he wants to go down this path.

gtg, I'll elaborate tomorrow iy"h
1. True. But knowing how to read, write, and divide doesn't hurt in any field.
2. Hardly.  Even though you can become a lawyer without the background it's the ones that had a secular education that typically do well enough in the crucial first year to land a good job.
And to start a medical career even later means not getting a paycheck until you're 40.
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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2014, 02:06:48 AM »
There are many professions that don't require a formal secular education backround, such as software and real estate. Entrepreneurship can be manifested in selling merchandise etc. There's plenty of options available.

Remember, once settled with a family, full time learning isn't feasible on average. Might as well chap arein in the prime of one's life.
Learning 9 hours and having 3 hours for english for 3 years isn't going to be the end of the world.  Especially if you're able to have more career options than relying on fickle real estate and other freelance jobs.

And there's zal afterward for 3 more years where you can learn (or waste away as many guys do) 14 hours a day.

Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Dan

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2014, 02:07:50 AM »
software, real estate, and entrepreneurship can definitely use a high school diploma.
(The bachelor's degree may be optional, if you wish, but attending an accredited high school is the law in some states....)
And no company will even look at someone without a high school education.  These days you really need a bachelor's to get a foot in the door.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline CS1

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2014, 02:13:59 AM »
Without a solution to a new problem post-gimmel tamuz you are writing off thousands to lives of shnorring and relying on their spouse's meager teaching salaries.

This merge is a bit of a stretch for this topic, but I think that it's within the theme.  Might split it off again onto it's own topic.

I believe that a solution is currently in the process of a metamorphosis.
The plan is to adjust and create shifts in state-wide vs. city-wide vs. niche Shlichus.
It's acceptable to work a half day and do "outreach" a half day or any proportion/combination of learning,
adult education, youth groups, Friendship Circle, etc... Therefore, it's now helpful for Mesivtas to teach these skills to enhance their future Shlichus:  graphic design, movie editing, music, etc..

Amazingly, there have been bochurim who have scored in the 99 percentile in standardized testing
of math, science, during high school -- even with their limited Mesivta learning (you were one of them?)

It is possible to do  -- the biggest challenge that I see is not the academic abilities as much as the abilities to focus, respect, see positive perspectives, and to LIVE life daily with a good sense and balance of self-confidence, Midos,
along with having a sense of bitul, appropriate behavior that would make the Rebbe proud -- not just in davening and academia, but also integrity, love for a fellow, mankind, etc..
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Offline yoshi

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2014, 02:14:25 AM »
People with ambition make money. Not people with degrees. The Rebbe was against having English education.....full stop.
Hashem runs the world. He decides who makes the money and who doesn't. True a כלי needs to be made, but it needs to be one which is acceptable to Hashem.

Offline CS1

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2014, 02:19:50 AM »
People with ambition make money. Not people with degrees. The Rebbe was against having English education.....full stop.
-1
the Rebbe set up several schools specifically for Chabad and non-Chabad students to attend
as a place for ALL students to learn and to learn Chassidus, Tanya, Gemara, along with both Limudei Kodesh and Chol (with proper perspectives).

The Rebbe specifically planned this and consulted with certain schools along the way.

Students can be encouraged to attend Chicago, Toronto, and NY to learn only Kodesh,
however, Florida, Pittsburgh, and Los Angeles, I believe offer both (with the Rebbe's approval).
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 02:26:57 AM by CS1 »
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