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« Last edited by jj1000 on April 20, 2017, 04:27:32 PM »

Author Topic: Shlichus Addiction?  (Read 89931 times)

Offline WhyAich

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2012, 11:22:23 AM »
and even that is no guarantee of parnassah...

it's a guarentee you'll be taken care of just like the boss....

i've been there...
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Offline WhyAich

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2012, 11:23:09 AM »


AND PS.... shlichus is wherever you, are it's an attitude, not  latitude!

FTFM :) i like the rhyme :)
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Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2012, 11:46:38 AM »
I don't agree with many of his points, but the premise that tuition is stifling cannot be argued and is an embarrassment.
That a zal (where you learn with a chavrusa for 90%+ of the day) should charge $20,000 is a downright abomination.
But I don't need a handout from merkaz, I want accountability for that kind of tuition.

If smicha programs can make a go of not charging tuition based on learning with the community for a small part of the day then why not a zal as well?
+1 disagreed with almost every conclusion he came to. Good points however about the ridiculous cost of tuition and the need to take financial responsibility for your own family.

Shlichus may be a broken system but it is certainly not the cause of financial difficulties within CH

Offline menachem

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2012, 01:01:07 AM »
http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=39112

Personally I agree with the Op-Ed.  Chabad yeshivas glorify something that is simply not attainable anymore unless you marry a head shliach's daughter, are gezhe/ultra-wealthy/very well connected, or are willing to go on shlichus to a 2-bit college campus or Antarctica.

And I agree with the author's assertion that b/c of the shlichus or bust indoctrination over 8 years in the chabad system that the vast majority who don't go on shlichus put too much focus on the gashmius because they'll never be looked up to in ruchnius as they're not shluchim. 
Or else they focus on how many ways to live off the government while waiting for years in crown heights dreaming that the perfect shlichus spot will magically appear.

As the author says, why didn't we ever hear a businessperson farbreng or even just talk to us for a few minutes while in yeshiva?

Disagree?  Let's hear it!

+1

I thought maybe you would also post advice for those that are already stuck :(

Btw, Thanks for all the help of your website!

We flew to Israel several months ago on united mileage ;)

Offline Dan

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2014, 01:24:48 AM »
Ain't saying much.
State of chabad mesivtas today if you want english is pathetic.

Maybe they can clone the 9th grade rebbe in PIT for the rest of the grades there and get a real english program...
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Offline Yungerman

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Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2014, 01:29:04 AM »
Ain't saying much.
State of chabad mesivtas today if you want english is pathetic.

Maybe they can clone the 9th grade rebbe in PIT for the rest of the grades there and get a real english program...

Not all though. Chicago and Toronto are fairly impressive.

 Why would a 'real english program' have anything to do with a good mesivta?

Offline Dan

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Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2014, 01:32:21 AM »
Because in case you didn't realize there ain't no more shlichus spots open.

If you want a shot at a real career you need a good english background. Otherwise they'll prob join the rest of the farmers...
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Offline whYME

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Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2014, 01:38:05 AM »
I came with the incredible group of guys from Chicago in '01 that turned around the zal there.
-1/2
The turn-around started in '98 when the few "locals" who were still frum and in yeshivah were quite chasidish + there was a good group of guys who came in.
In '99 Rabbi Shapiro came which I believe was another major step forward.

This whole group left after '99, I don't really know what happened between then and when you came, but I guess everyone from those days was replaced with a new crop of "locals"

Offline whYME

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Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2014, 01:39:54 AM »
If you want a shot at a real career you need a good english background.
-100


Offline CS1

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Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2014, 01:39:57 AM »
Ain't saying much.
State of chabad mesivtas today if you want english is pathetic.
Maybe they can clone the 9th grade rebbe in PIT for the rest of the grades there and get a real english program...
+1
that's a great compliment for a mesivta rebbe :)  especially considering it's a transitional,
yet pivotal age of growth and crucial transformation; even more so in this decade.
    How many clones?

Not all though. Chicago and Toronto are fairly impressive.
Why would a 'real english program' have anything to do with a good mesivta?
Having a high school diploma is something that the Rebbe encouraged in many cases.

A lot of the classes are taught/can be taught from the perspective of these topics are Aibeshter --
Also creates a positive environment, elevates the world for Moshiach, and portrays Kiddush Hashem in many areas.. 
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Offline Yungerman

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Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2014, 01:45:26 AM »
Because in case you didn't realize there ain't no more shlichus spots open.

If you want a shot at a real career you need a good english background. Otherwise they'll prob join the rest of the farmers...

I understand that shlichus dynamics have drastically shifted in the past 5-8 years. That doesn't really negate the Rebbe's unequivocal position that the option to learn english in mesivta/zal isn't optimal, and that its sole inclusion was purposed to give those bochurim who's parents wouldn't let them enter yeshiva without it a chance to learn Torah. I acknowledge that this subject isn't relevant to this thread and is beyond its scope.

Offline Dan

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Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2014, 01:46:40 AM »
-100
If you want to be a professional with a guaranteed income you need that background.
Sure you can make a living without being a professional, but not all are cut out to be entrepreneurs.

Chabad is never going to be LW with a support system for people to learn for decades.  Without shlichus opportunities there are way too many young guys who get married without career prospects.
But at least they learned full time in mesivta...
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Offline Yungerman

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Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2014, 01:49:10 AM »
-1/2
The turn-around started in '98 when the few "locals" who were still frum and in yeshivah were quite chasidish + there was a good group of guys who came in.
In '99 Rabbi Shapiro came which I believe was another major step forward.

This whole group left after '99, I don't really know what happened between then and when you came, but I guess everyone from those days was replaced with a new crop of "locals"

Ahh, Rabbi Shapiro, one of the most caring Mashpiim around. He used to call into his office every bochur at least every other week and make sure everything from learning to pocket change was in order.

Offline whYME

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Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2014, 01:53:15 AM »
If you want to be a professional with a guaranteed income you need that background.
Sure you can make a living without being a professional, but not all are cut out to be entrepreneurs.
1. Not all are cut out to be professionals either.
2. Someone without that background can easily catch up if he decides later on he wants to go down this path.

gtg, I'll elaborate tomorrow iy"h

Offline Yungerman

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Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2014, 01:54:02 AM »
If you want to be a professional with a guaranteed income you need that background.
Sure you can make a living without being a professional, but not all are cut out to be entrepreneurs.

Chabad is never going to be LW with a support system for people to learn for decades.  Without shlichus opportunities there are way too many young guys who get married without career prospects.
But at least they learned full time in mesivta...

There are many professions that don't require a formal secular education backround, such as software and real estate. Entrepreneurship can be manifested in selling merchandise etc. There's plenty of options available.

Remember, once settled with a family, full time learning isn't feasible on average. Might as well chap arein in the prime of one's life.

Offline Dan

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2014, 01:55:01 AM »
+1
that's a great compliment for a mesivta rebbe :)  especially considering it's a transitional,
yet pivotal age of growth and crucial transformation; even more so in this decade.
    How many clones?
For starters PIT has never had an acceptable rebbe for 10th grade.
Rabbi YD and Rabbi CF were my teachers and they never showed up to class an entire year. RCF couldn't even translate the derech mitzvoscha even when he did show up and he was only there because he married within and needed a paycheck.  Shameful.  From what I've heard throughout the years it's consistently a massive hole there.

It's a shame that Billy is happy with the status quo in PIT.  It has the potential to be so much more than what it is now by adding some new judiaca staff and getting serious about english.  Because the worst thing is to spend the time with english but not make the effort that the teachers are up to par to giving a world class education.
The real killer is the nepotistic appointments.  Always has been.  It's petty and harmful in the long-run to the school's rep and the city's rep.

Makes me want to open competition and show PIT how it's done but I don't have billy's pockets.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 01:58:02 AM by Dan »
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Offline CS1

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Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2014, 01:58:10 AM »
There are many professions that don't require a formal secular education backround, such as software and real estate.
Entrepreneurship can be manifested in selling merchandise etc. There's plenty of options available.

Remember, once settled with a family, full time learning isn't feasible on average. Might as well chap arein in the prime of one's life.
software, real estate, and entrepreneurship can definitely use a high school diploma.
(The bachelor's degree may be optional, if you wish, but attending an accredited high school is the law in some states....)
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Offline Dan

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2014, 02:00:10 AM »
I understand that shlichus dynamics have drastically shifted in the past 5-8 years.

I acknowledge that this subject isn't relevant to this thread and is beyond its scope.
Without a solution to a new problem post-gimmel tamuz you are writing off thousands to lives of shnorring and relying on their spouse's meager teaching salaries.

This merge is a bit of a stretch for this topic, but I think that it's within the theme.  Might split it off again onto it's own topic.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2014, 02:00:46 AM »
Ahh, Rabbi Shapiro, one of the most caring Mashpiim around. He used to call into his office every bochur at least every other week and make sure everything from learning to pocket change was in order.
Loved him to pieces when I was there.  But the second you're gone he doesn't remember you.  Heard the same from many others.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Shlichus Addiction?
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2014, 02:04:47 AM »
1. Not all are cut out to be professionals either.
2. Someone without that background can easily catch up if he decides later on he wants to go down this path.

gtg, I'll elaborate tomorrow iy"h
1. True. But knowing how to read, write, and divide doesn't hurt in any field.
2. Hardly.  Even though you can become a lawyer without the background it's the ones that had a secular education that typically do well enough in the crucial first year to land a good job.
And to start a medical career even later means not getting a paycheck until you're 40.
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