Author Topic: Interesting Articles...  (Read 2348862 times)

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8840 on: April 22, 2018, 12:11:46 AM »
How do you define Success?
Read his letter.
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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8841 on: April 22, 2018, 12:37:02 AM »
and then there's this....Someone who actually served in both the US  and Israeli militaries, told me it was easier to be a religious Jew in the US army. That's sad....
Forced shaving
Forced kol Isha concert
Etc...
After the various controversies regarding the ceremony held Wednesday night, I was intrigued to find out על מה יצא הקצף, and scanned through a recording.

I was shocked to find out that, contrary to my preconceived notion that current day zionists are devoid from the original ideology, and just practice מנהג אבותיהם בידיהם, it seems like the original ideology is ר״ל alive and kicking (at least amongst those who run the show).

What a chillul Hashem is the fact that any minor event in the US has שם שמים mentioned and acknowledged infinitely more than it was (not) in that ceremony.

With all due respect to good actions of Mr Meshi-Zahav, I am not so certain that he has not been inflicted with the כוחי ועוצם ידי bug of zionism. As a matter of fact, he probably didn't transform that much. True נטורי קרתא as defined by חז״ל are those that are busy learning Torah. Not everyone has the זיץ פלייש to do that, and some people just enjoy what they call in Israel אקשן. In the past it might have been ״נטורי קרתא״ demonstrations, and now it just takes other forms  (and is passed on to the next generation).

For a better thought through analysis and approach, one should probably refer to http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/history/tnuot/yahadut-2.htm
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Dan

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Offline precise

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8843 on: April 22, 2018, 01:42:28 AM »
Read his letter.
מלא כפירה
To celebrate his sons joining the idf ר״ל

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8844 on: April 22, 2018, 02:03:15 AM »
מלא כפירה
To celebrate his sons joining the idf ר״ל
As I said above:

Quote
As a matter of fact, he probably didn't transform that much. True נטורי קרתא as defined by חז״ל are those that are busy learning Torah. Not everyone has the זיץ פלייש to do that, and some people just enjoy what they call in Israel אקשן. In the past it might have been ״נטורי קרתא״ demonstrations, and now it just takes other forms  (and is passed on to the next generation).

That being said, joining the IDF might be better for some, as it provides a certain structure and discipline, and potentially protecting Yidden, rather than being troublemakers elsewhere.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8845 on: April 22, 2018, 11:11:46 AM »
מלא כפירה
To celebrate his sons joining the idf ר״ל
Keep fighting this losing battle. Please provide examples of מלא כפירה and recognize that not agreeing with "the Shita" doesnt make it מלא כפירה. It only makes it a different shita.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8846 on: April 22, 2018, 11:32:00 AM »
Keep fighting this losing battle. Please provide examples of מלא כפירה and recognize that not agreeing with "the Shita" doesnt make it מלא כפירה. It only makes it a different shita.
Shitah or not. He's conveinetly forgetting that fact that we are still in the midst of a bitter long golus. And that the state of Israel and it's Jews are still, as always, in a "state" of constant danger from the billions of enemies that surround them. Nothwitsranding the "brave idf soldiers" oath.

Yes Jews can all freely concentrate themselves in the middle East, the seat of danger. But a salvation it ain't.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8847 on: April 22, 2018, 11:42:46 AM »
Shitah or not. He's conveinetly forgetting that fact that we are still in the midst of a bitter long golus. And that the state of Israel and it's Jews are still, as always, in a "state" of constant danger from the billions of enemies that surround them. Nothwitsranding the "brave idf soldiers" oath.

Yes Jews can all freely concentrate themselves in the middle East, the seat of danger. But a salvation it ain't.
He who?

I dont begin to understand the other things you wrote.

Toms River is the ultimate salvation. Got it.

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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8848 on: April 22, 2018, 11:44:22 AM »
He who?

I dont begin to understand the other things you wrote.

Toms River is the ultimate salvation. Got it.
You didn't understand his letter. He is saying that the Zionist state is good cuz now Jews are safe etc blah blah

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8849 on: April 22, 2018, 11:49:21 AM »
You didn't understand his letter. He is saying that the Zionist state is good cuz now Jews are safe etc blah blah
"Today, after 70 years of a Zionist state, I am pleased to inform you, my dear uncle, that your fears were groundless: we have a wonderful, amazing Jewish-Zionist state that serves as a model for the entire world. A state that is blossoming in almost every sphere - education, economy, health, immigrant absorption, and Judaism itself. About 7 million Jews - over fifty percent of the Jewish people - live in the State of Israel, and in Jerusalem alone we are approaching one million residents, which probably was not the case even during Temple times."

Where in that paragraph does he say that?
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8850 on: April 22, 2018, 12:03:16 PM »


"Today, after 70 years of a Zionist state, I am pleased to inform you, my dear uncle, that your fears were groundless: we have a wonderful, amazing Jewish-Zionist state that serves as a model for the entire world. A state that is blossoming in almost every sphere - education, economy, health, immigrant absorption, and Judaism itself. About 7 million Jews - over fifty percent of the Jewish people - live in the State of Israel, and in Jerusalem alone we are approaching one million residents, which probably was not the case even during Temple times."

Where in that paragraph does he say that?

The qvelling about the state thing is misguided. That's all.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8851 on: April 22, 2018, 12:24:30 PM »

IMO The qvelling about the state thing is misguided. That's all.
FTFY 

But you also said this...
You didn't understand his letter. He is saying that the Zionist state is good cuz now Jews are safe etc blah blah
And thats not what he said.
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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8852 on: April 22, 2018, 12:29:36 PM »
"Today, after 70 years of a Zionist state, I am pleased to inform you, my dear uncle, that your fears were groundless: we have a wonderful, amazing Jewish-Zionist state that serves as a model for the entire world. A state that is blossoming in almost every sphere - education, economy, health, immigrant absorption, and Judaism itself. About 7 million Jews - over fifty percent of the Jewish people - live in the State of Israel, and in Jerusalem alone we are approaching one million residents, which probably was not the case even during Temple times."

Where in that paragraph does he say that?
He doesn't say that in the paragraph you quote, though he does make the dangerous claim that it is a "Jewish-Zionist" state. Zionism is about as compatible with Judaism as is a Reform Temple or a Wendy's Shabbat meal.

And what does he say in the following paragraph:

Quote
Rest in peace, my dear uncle Rabbi Amram. There is no need to fight anymore. Although your generation may have feared the Zionist state, 70 years later it has been proven that the State of Israel, with God’s help, is the savior and protector of the people of Israel, and this is indeed the safest and best place to live as a Torah observant Jew.

I read an article in the Hebrew Mishpacha about R' Uriel Zimmer ע״ה, which mentioned a pamphlet he wrote more than 40 years ago called יהדות התורה והמדינה. It is available online here and is amazingly accurate and relevant today, as it was at the time it was written (more than 40 years ago)!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 12:33:16 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline whYME

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8853 on: April 22, 2018, 12:35:56 PM »
Where in that paragraph does he say that?
Not in "that paragraph" but in the article.

Quote
Rest in peace, my dear uncle Rabbi Amram. There is no need to fight anymore. Although your generation may have feared the Zionist state, 70 years later it has been proven that the State of Israel, with God’s help, is the savior and protector of the people of Israel, and this is indeed the safest and best place to live as a Torah observant Jew.

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8854 on: April 22, 2018, 12:55:35 PM »
Shitah or not. He's conveinetly forgetting that fact that we are still in the midst of a bitter long golus. And that the state of Israel and it's Jews are still, as always, in a "state" of constant danger from the billions of enemies that surround them. Nothwitsranding the "brave idf soldiers" oath.

Yes Jews can all freely concentrate themselves in the middle East, the seat of danger. But a salvation it ain't.
ארץ ישראל is the safest place for Yidden, due to the fact that עיני ה״א בה מרשית שנה ועד אחרית שנה.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline precise

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8855 on: April 22, 2018, 01:14:49 PM »
ארץ ישראל is the safest place for Yidden, due to the fact that עיני ה״א בה מרשית שנה ועד אחרית שנה.
This fact was fact even before 1948 and the there is also an other side to the fact that sinning there  is far worse

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8856 on: April 22, 2018, 01:23:45 PM »
This fact was fact even before 1948 and the there is also an other side to the fact that sinning there  is far worse
Sinning is never good, though reality is that despite all attempts at העברה על הדת by the Zionists, the average תינוק שנשבה in ארץ־ישראל fulfills many מצוות, and that is probably to the credit of efforts of non-zionist Yidden who participate in the Israeli political system, and fight tirelessly against the העברה על הדת, and are מזכה everyone that pays taxes there to support לומדי תורה.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8857 on: April 22, 2018, 02:15:17 PM »
"Today, after 70 years of a Zionist state, I am pleased to inform you, my dear uncle, that your fears were groundless: we have a wonderful, amazing Jewish-Zionist state that serves as a model for the entire world. A state that is blossoming in almost every sphere - education, economy, health, immigrant absorption, and Judaism itself. About 7 million Jews - over fifty percent of the Jewish people - live in the State of Israel, and in Jerusalem alone we are approaching one million residents, which probably was not the case even during Temple times."

Where in that paragraph does he say that?
What he wrote about population is simply am ha'aratzus
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8858 on: April 22, 2018, 02:28:14 PM »
What he wrote about population is simply am ha'aratzus

I don't think there's any point in studying or analyzing the details of what he wrote. He B.H. is busy with doing positive things with Zaka, let it stay at that. It doesn't give him credentials to write an opinion piece worthy of debate.

The plain reality is that Zionism is 100% כפירה. That being said, in certain (probably indirect) ways there are תינוקות שנשבו that eventually discovered true Yiddishkeit because of seeds planted by Zionism. Almost akin to what the רמב"ם writes here (הלכה ד', last four paragraphs of English translation).

[this entire conversation/discussion should probably be moved here or get its own thread].
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 04:23:42 PM by ExGingi »
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Offline Emkay

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8859 on: April 22, 2018, 04:15:55 PM »


The plain reality is that Zionism is 100% כפירה
Would I be able to get a source or an explanation of that?