Topic Wiki

Links to kosher symbol lists. Each list is obviously only as reliable as its source

cRc: http://www.crcweb.org/agency_list.php

KosherQuest: https://kosherquest.org/kosher-symbols/

Approved alcoholic drinks from the Rabbanut.  http://www.jerusalemkoshernews.com/wp-content/uploads/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A7%D7%90%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%97%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.pdf

These are NOT Orthodox: https://sites.google.com/site/nonorthodoxkosher/home (even though some may look legit)


Informative post regarding Kashrus Agencies
Every hashgacha has +&-.


You can also submit any kashrus questions at
https://www.askcrc.org/ask
https://oukosher.org/ask-kosher-question/
https://www.star-k.org/ask-rabbi choose General Consumer Kashrus Questions in the Subject/Topic Dropdown list
https://www.ok.org/contact/ choose Kosher in the Attention Dropdown list



Author Topic: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread  (Read 940275 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1280 on: August 21, 2017, 05:05:44 PM »
There is a concept called bliyos which creates certain precise requirements to run kosher using non kosher equipment.
I thought it's fine? Like coffee.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1281 on: August 21, 2017, 05:09:20 PM »
Kids are OTD because they eat OU? I can think of many more direct reasons. Never mind that the TAZ disagrees with you.
Taz says a modern orthodox organization is lechatchila? Where?

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1282 on: August 21, 2017, 05:09:40 PM »
The question is something else, standard nestle tasters choice do have on OU, these DON't, now for what reason? if it is due to a kashrus concern that should concern the public too if not than it's a different story
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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1283 on: August 21, 2017, 05:11:52 PM »
The question is something else, standard nestle tasters choice do have on OU, these DON't, now for what reason? if it is due to a kashrus concern that should concern the public too if not than it's a different story
According to an OU article that @aygart linked, it's fine and doesn't need a hechsher because the plant only makes coffee.
Problem is that this is simply not true in this case. And it definitely would therefore need a hechsher even according to the OU.

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1284 on: August 21, 2017, 05:14:33 PM »
Saying that plants only make coffee, and therefore doesn't need a hechsher, does not mean they also make milk. That is so rediculous. If they process other things besides coffee they most definitely need a hechsher.
The OU was wrong about the premiss.

So now coffee is milchig , but it's ok because it's chlov hacompanies? How does that make sense to you?

If the drying equipment is used exclusively for coffee and the only other ingredients in the plant are mixed into the dry coffee then regular coffee which does not go through that equipment will automatically not be affected. It is not that they dry milk in the plant but that they have a separate piece of equipment in which they mix powdered milk with the dry coffee at ambient temperatures. In that case it would be included in this.
Although there are forms of flavored instant coffees, the flavors are added at ambient temperatures after the drying process.
So we can easily have a plant which would say they process milk but doesn't do so in a manner which would cause a kashrus problem. If giving a hechsher on it then the hechsher would need to make all sorts of assurances that there is no residue while practically even if there is it would be batel and we have a right to rely on the cleaning process.

And again, if this is not something you understood from my previous post you should refrain from discussing hechsherim.
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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1285 on: August 21, 2017, 05:16:15 PM »
If the drying equipment is used exclusively for coffee and the only other ingredients in the plant are mixed into the dry coffee then regular coffee which does not go through that equipment will automatically not be affected. It is not that they dry milk in the plant but that they have a separate piece of equipment in which they mix powdered milk with the dry coffee at ambient temperatures. In that case it would be included in this.So we can easily have a plant which would say they process milk but doesn't do so in a manner which would cause a kashrus problem. If giving a hechsher on it then the hechsher would need to make all sorts of assurances that there is no residue while practically even if there is it would be batel and we have a right to rely on the cleaning process.

And again, if this is not something you understood from my previous post you should refrain from discussing hechsherim.
I say they dry milk.
And sticking that into the "flavor" disclaimer is disingenuous

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1286 on: August 21, 2017, 05:16:35 PM »
According to an OU article that @aygart linked, it's fine and doesn't need a hechsher because the plant only makes coffee.
Problem is that this is simply not true in this case. And it definitely would therefore need a hechsher even according to the OU.
Is there anyone who actually knows what they are talking about who is of this opinion?
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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1287 on: August 21, 2017, 05:17:09 PM »
I say they dry milk.
On what basis?

And sticking that into the "flavor" disclaimer is disingenuous
Why?
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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1288 on: August 21, 2017, 05:18:31 PM »
On what basis?
Logic. What else are they doing with milk?

Mixing it in to the "flavor" in a separate milchic kitchen part of the plant? Nah.

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1289 on: August 21, 2017, 05:18:56 PM »
I thought it's fine? Like coffee.
How does room temperature powder in a mixer have bliyos?
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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1290 on: August 21, 2017, 05:19:51 PM »
It may be DROPR in the nestle case, wondering what's the actual reason these d o not have an OU as opposed to other Tasters Choice
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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1291 on: August 21, 2017, 05:22:54 PM »
Logic. What else are they doing with milk?

Mixing it in to the "flavor" in a separate milchic kitchen part of the plant? Nah.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how these products are made. When you have a container of powdered cappuccino the plant where they dry the coffee is highly unlikely to be the one drying the milk. In order to dry milk they would need all of the equipment and regulations of a dairy. Instead they buy powdered milk and simply mix it with the dried coffee in a tumbler which looks similar to a drier. All that ever goes into the tumbler will be dry powders at ambient temperature.
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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1292 on: August 21, 2017, 05:25:12 PM »
It may be DROPR in the nestle case, wondering what's the actual reason these d o not have an OU as opposed to other Tasters Choice
So we can easily have a plant which would say they process milk but doesn't do so in a manner which would cause a kashrus problem. If giving a hechsher on it then the hechsher would need to make all sorts of assurances that there is no residue while practically even if there is it would be batel and we have a right to rely on the cleaning process.
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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1293 on: August 21, 2017, 05:41:50 PM »
Taz says a modern orthodox organization is lechatchila? Where?
He says in 112 if it's mutar then it's not Metamtem es Halev. Draw your own conclusions.

And he's actually talking about a case where the davar issur is batel. He says it's no longer Metamtem es Halev.

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1294 on: August 21, 2017, 06:56:24 PM »
I'm going to let all the experts hash it out without having done some basic research. I'm starting to understand why doctors hate internet medical advice.

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1295 on: August 21, 2017, 07:41:59 PM »
I'm going to let all the experts hash it out without having done some basic research. I'm starting to understand why doctors hate internet medical advice.
Point of note, I have asked twice if there is anyone who knows what they are talking about who disagrees with the OU, OK, Star K, CRC and others about this. Meanwhile there have been no replies.
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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1296 on: August 21, 2017, 09:02:10 PM »
They dry milk in totally different, specialized plants. I've seen this firsthand. I'm dan lekaf zechus that when you say they dry milk on the same equipment that they freeze dry coffee you're trolling.
re apple juice  - a certain national brand apple juice (with an unreliable hashgocha) was made for years on the same equipment as clam chowder. I wouldn't be comfortable with that, would you? Minute maid had reports of being verified to only process Orange juice, nothing else, if that's really tue, and still true, and I had it from a reliable source, then I would be ok with that, personally.


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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1297 on: August 21, 2017, 10:07:52 PM »
They dry milk in totally different, specialized plants. I've seen this firsthand. I'm dan lekaf zechus that when you say they dry milk on the same equipment that they freeze dry coffee you're trolling.
re apple juice  - a certain national brand apple juice (with an unreliable hashgocha) was made for years on the same equipment as clam chowder. I wouldn't be comfortable with that, would you? Minute maid had reports of being verified to only process Orange juice, nothing else, if that's really tue, and still true, and I had it from a reliable source, then I would be ok with that, personally.
I would think that clam chowder needs totally different equipment than apple juice... - But I'm not supprised, and neither should you be - that a plant that has specialized equipment to spray/dry coffee, could technically be spray drying milk. Or even clam chowder.

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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1298 on: August 21, 2017, 11:07:41 PM »
I would think that clam chowder needs totally different equipment than apple juice... - But I'm not supprised, and neither should you be - that a plant that has specialized equipment to spray/dry coffee, could technically be spray drying milk. Or even clam chowder.
What you would think in your ignorance is irrelevant. It it's easy and common to use a pasteurizer for various items. Your thoughts that clam chowder would need different equipment than juice is without basis as is your assumption that a plant which dries coffee would (more relevant than could) also dry milk. It would be silly to do it due to the specialized system needed for milk.

Again, is there anyone knowledgeable who disagrees with these hechsherim about this or is it only your baseless feelings?
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Re: Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread
« Reply #1299 on: August 22, 2017, 02:11:36 AM »
Is this true about the OU in israel that it's a totally different hechsher then the onein America and has nothing to do with each other?  (for example a honey nut cheerios which has an OU.

 And what about FIBRE1 in israel made by nestle with a hechsher from Portugal (vaad hachasrus of portugal.( looks like a K inside an upside down shield or the window of a king.
And they even leave you a number to be reached at (1-700-50-10-88

 Or is there a reliable person that can be called to verify the hecsherim in israel,meaning a rav in israel that's reliable to hold from? Thanks.
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