Baltimore Master Thread

[Aaaron]

http://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/did-baltimores-orthodox-community-turn-a-blind-eye-to-child-sexual-abuse/

This is a serious article.  What are the locals saying about the situation?

It's complicated.  I'm VERY close to people on both sides. 

[ShlockDoc]

It's complicated.  I'm VERY close to people on both sides.

I'm sure it's complicated.  Tough thing for a community to grapple with.  As an outsider, what I find most dangerous is the apparent widespread misunderstanding of the CPS findings.

[Aaaron]

I'm sure it's complicated.  Tough thing for a community to grapple with.  As an outsider, what I find most dangerous is the apparent widespread misunderstanding of the CPS findings.

A lot of new info in this article (I just read it an hour ago), there was always talk of two brothers and possibly a cousin.  The claim of 8 possible victims changes a lot, but it's also taken with a mountain of salt. 

People have been educated about the various level of findings by CPS, but at what point do you say it's a "he said/he said" with no corroborating evidence either way?

I'm usually the first to jump on the bandwagon believing the accusers but I'm very hesitant this time.  I don't know Rabbi K personally, but have meet him a few times. 

And full disclosure, my son goes to Shoresh, an immediate family member is the program director, and I have financially supported them in the past. 

[ShlockDoc]

at what point do you say it's a "he said/he said" with no corroborating evidence either way?

I would think a CPS finding of "ruled out" would make it a "he said/she said".  The "unsubstantiated" means that there is evidence but not enough to prosecute.  That's a serious finding.

[Aaaron]

I would think a CPS finding of "ruled out" would make it a "he said/she said".  The "unsubstantiated" means that there is evidence but not enough to prosecute.  That's a serious finding.

My understanding is that "ruled out" is pretty uncommon.  Similarly, the law never finds someone "innocent," it finds you "not guilty," similar to a CPS finding of unsubstantiated.  I'm curious to see what happens with their civil suit, where there's a lower standard than a criminal case.  It's just interesting that there's no attorney in MD named Jon Little, so I'm not sure who their attorney is or where he's from.

[YSP]

It's complicated.  I'm VERY close to people on both sides.

Uncomplicate it

[Aaaron]

Uncomplicate it

Impossible.  No one knows who/what to believe. 
Some people feel that the findings of "unsubstantiated" are sufficient to crucify the guy, others feel that lack of prosecution means he's innocent.  Some feel that there are ulterior motives and other things going on, and others feel the community is protecting the guy.

These things are always complicated because there is rarely forensic evidence or anything to corroborate the claims. 

[ShlockDoc]

Impossible.  No one knows who/what to believe. 
Some people feel that the findings of "unsubstantiated" are sufficient to crucify the guy, others feel that lack of prosecution means he's innocent.  Some feel that there are ulterior motives and other things going on, and others feel the community is protecting the guy.

These things are always complicated because there is rarely forensic evidence or anything to corroborate the claims.

There's a difference between crucifying the guy and making sure he doesn't have a job/contact with children.  It seems like the community kept him in a youth related role even after multiple allegations and a CPS ruling of not enough evidence to convict.   It would seem that protecting children should have the lowest threshold of proof. 

“The potential danger to children should be far greater than any other concern,” Rabbi Blau continued. “The notion that if the police don’t arrest the guy you should keep him teaching is absurd.”

[henche]

There's a difference between crucifying the guy and making sure he doesn't have a job/contact with children.  It seems like the community kept him in a youth related role even after multiple allegations and a CPS ruling of not enough evidence to convict.   It would seem that protecting children should have the lowest threshold of proof. 

“The potential danger to children should be far greater than any other concern,” Rabbi Blau continued. “The notion that if the police don’t arrest the guy you should keep him teaching is absurd.”

+1 on this. Seriously.

[Aaaron]

There's a difference between crucifying the guy and making sure he doesn't have a job/contact with children.  It seems like the community kept him in a youth related role even after multiple allegations and a CPS ruling of not enough evidence to convict.   It would seem that protecting children should have the lowest threshold of proof. 

“The potential danger to children should be far greater than any other concern,” Rabbi Blau continued. “The notion that if the police don’t arrest the guy you should keep him teaching is absurd.”

I personally agree.

[ludmila]

+1 on this. Seriously.

+2. 

[ShlockDoc]

http://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/update-rabbi-accused-of-sexual-abuse-at-camp-terminated-from-baltimore-day-school/

It would seem that bad publicity and liability turned out to be a better motivator than protecting children. 

[AnonymousUser]

http://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/did-baltimores-orthodox-community-turn-a-blind-eye-to-child-sexual-abuse/

This is a serious article.  What are the locals saying about the situation?

I'm just curious. Does this affect you in any way, or is it just gossip?

[jose34]

I'm just curious. Does this affect you in any way, or is it just gossip?

+1! Thanks for speaking up!

[ShlockDoc]

I'm just curious. Does this affect you in any way, or is it just gossip?

A lot of people criticize moderate muslims for not speaking up against the dangerous radical elements within the broader muslim world.   The same principle should apply to jews, right?

[ludmila]

A lot of people criticize moderate muslims for not speaking up against the dangerous radical elements within the broader muslim world.   The same principle should apply to jews, right?

+1

[aygart]

A lot of people criticize moderate muslims for not speaking up against the dangerous radical elements within the broader muslim world.   The same principle should apply to jews, right?

While I don't disagree that these allegations should be taken very seriously, there is no comparison between this which is at most a bad person and not a whole movement compared to radical Islam which is a mass movement.

[ShlockDoc]

While I don't disagree that these allegations should be taken very seriously, there is no comparison between this which is at most a bad person and not a whole movement compared to radical Islam which is a mass movement.

The comparison is to the communal/institutional coverups, not to the individual who is being accused.

[aygart]

The comparison is to the communal/institutional coverups, not to the individual who is being accused.

That makes more sense.

[ushdadude]

They are all older hotels. The newest hotel downtown is the Hilton near Camden Yards. Why not stay at the Aloft near Arundel Mills

Is this hilton walkable to a jewish community?