The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live

[Dan]

We've had storms that strong this winter.

Again, my point is that NYers complain loudly when it snows. Every news site covers it in depth when a snowflake might drop.

The problem isn't the snow it's how it's dealt with.

[elit]

There have been many feet of snow dumped on us, but no power outages this winter.

It's not a question of population density, just how it effects your daily life.

I love how you spin a lot more snow into a pro... pretty sure it would be in my con list

[Dan]

It's a con, read my OP.
But it's not something that makes a difference in our daily lives.

[saw50st8]

FYI, the power outtages were for 60 mph winds that knocked down trees and caused cars to crash on utility infrastructure. The day with the significant power outtages also had under an inch of snow accumulation in most places. Snow doesn't typically knock down power alone.

I'm a utility worker and dealing with all the aftermath so I'm well aware :-) A lot of snow storms come with wind though and I would think the midwest would have more of that.  Although my perception is midwest winters is along the line of "The Long Winter" by Laura Ingalls Wilder so....

[henche]

We've had storms that strong this winter.

Again, my point is that NYers complain loudly when it snows. Every news site covers it in depth when a snowflake might drop.

The problem isn't the snow it's how it's dealt with.

+1

It's not New York. It's the New Yorkers.

[Lamppost]

Dan,
Would you say that the massive amounts of people that have recenetly moved to CLE would make CLE a less attractive place to move now? Are the houses much more expensive or difficult to find? Are the 5 shuls on Green absolutely packed to capacity and I would just feel unwelcome/ unnecessary? Again I am a yeshivish person so I would want to daven in such a place like a Kollel or something. I know that the Beachwood Kollel just built a new building a year ago but are they full again?

A friend was telling  me that the locals are getting "sick of winning" if you know what I mean:)
Any thoughts would really be appreciated!

[Dan]

Housing prices are way up from the pre-voucher days, but still cheaper than any other Jewish community.

The shuls are not at capacity thanks to lots of smaller shtiebelach popping up. There has been too much winning, but hopefully that leads to more good shul, school, and restaurant options for everyone along with the higher cost of houses and rentals.

[Lamppost]

Were are my type buying now? Beachwood or UH? A specific street(s) would be appreciated. (I am relatively familiar with CLE, grandparents were from CH)

[Dan]

Were are my type buying now? Beachwood or UH? A specific street(s) would be appreciated. (I am relatively familiar with CLE, grandparents were from CH)

Street level? No idea what that means. It's quite spread out:

You can look for yourself at prices

Beachwood/University Heights community.
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/41.513911,-81.47491,41.471544,-81.553531_rect/13_zm/a9bf555e9bX1-CRr4804t8n4l2l_151pt8_crid/1_fr/

Cleveland Heights community:
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/41.518427,-81.531279,41.497248,-81.57059_rect/14_zm/a9bf655e9bX1-CRr4804t8nlfvx_151pt8_crid/1_fr/

Plenty of houses can be had in the $130 range.

[Lamppost]

Street level? No idea what that means. It's quite spread out:

Well here is also what I am trying to get at. If the whole boom in cle is bc of the vouchers and Beachwood doesnt get vouchers, does that mean that all the young folks are moving to UH? You have made the point that Beachwood offers lower taxes to offfset this but in that case why is the vouchers thing so great that makes everyone want to come? Its just a taking from here and giving there....(higher taxes, lower tuition)?

[Dan]

People coming for vouchers move to UH. But due to the massive influx housing everywhere has gone up by 35-70%.

[henche]

People coming for vouchers move to UH. But due to the massive influx housing everywhere has gone up by 35-70%.

How much is a typical family paying for a house, and how much in property tax? And how much in tuition?

In Boston, those would be 700-800, 2-3k, and 9k.

[Barryg]

People coming for vouchers move to UH. But due to the massive influx housing everywhere has gone up by 35-70%.

Is up but not 35% in Cleveland Heights. Supply is going down here, so in a year or two housing will prob be up significantly. A 5 bedroom just went up recently btw https://lizadardashti-wolf.howardhanna.com/Property/Detail/3800-Berkeley-Rd-Cleveland-Heights-OH-44118/NorthernOH/3978066

[Dan]

Is up but not 35% in Cleveland Heights. Supply is going down here, so in a year or two housing will prob be up significantly. A 5 bedroom just went up recently btw https://lizadardashti-wolf.howardhanna.com/Property/Detail/3800-Berkeley-Rd-Cleveland-Heights-OH-44118/NorthernOH/3978066

Those price increases have been in UH/Beachwood since the vouchers started.

[Dan]

How much is a typical family paying for a house, and how much in property tax? And how much in tuition?

In Boston, those would be 700-800, 2-3k, and 9k.

It's complicated. Frum Jews live in at least 6 different cities with 6 different income and property tax structures. Tuition depends on which city you live in, which school you go to, and which vouchers you qualify for.

[henche]

It's complicated. Frum Jews live in at least 6 different cities with 6 different income and property tax structures. Tuition depends on which city you live in, which school you go to, and which vouchers you qualify for.

So basically Boston is cheaper, and has better Chinese food

[churnbabychurn]

So basically Boston is cheaper, and has better Kosher Chinese food

Ftfy

[thaber]

I'm going to step on a landmine here. I grew up in various out of town communities, then lived and sent a child to school  & tutored boys for 4 years in Brooklyn  after which we then moved out of town. The Yahudus education, specifically in Shabbos concepts (6 yemei bereishes, etc.) & Meleches Shabbos, are considerably stronger out of town. I have found the "in-town" schools hyper focused on "covering ground" and "finishing" while the "out of town" schools were more focused on Yidishkeit.

Not a landmine, דברים פשוטים

Can someone do a pros/cons of Passaic?

Im looking for a younger yeshivish working community. Guys who are black hat white shirt type but went to work. Something on the East coast that's not a huge melting pot. I live in Lakewood now and I think Jackson is okay except that it runs off Lakewood infrastructure and I would rather my kids come out more well rounded than what I think the Lakewood schools will offer. My wife works as SEIT/P3 teacher (so she would be looking for such a job there)
and I work online.

I keep thinking that Passaic might be the answer. Is that a correct assumption? Where are the younger (upper 20's) guys going neighborhood wise and is housing halfway affordable? Any suggestion would really be appreciated.

Thanks!

Take a drive around the frum communities with your wifeand see if it appeals to you. Go to mincha, get some pizza, etc. That's the only way you'll get a good idea.

It's definitely true. We asked my mother to move from Monsey to Teaneck and my sister from Brooklyn to Teaneck to have us all closer together. Having (good) family nearby is invaluable. I'm still working on my in-laws and sisters-in-law.

Passaic is a nice community but it's not really very pretty.

True on the not really pretty. Having family nearby, depending on the circumstances, can inhibit a young couple growing up and being adults. I'd imagine most of us have seen that many times. Move OOT for a while and you'll be able to build your own identity and self. Obviously, everyone has different mitigating factors

[Barryg]

Those price increases have been in UH/Beachwood since the vouchers started.

True, but pricing goes by supply and demand. In Cleveland Heights there is for sure demand as many have moved in since vouchers, but supply was high so the prices didn't go up that much. Supply seems to be dwindling as some have even moved to Harvey, Bainbridge and Crest and there aren't that many houses left even a bit out of the main three streets. Also, in UH there were investors buying up the houses especially once vouchers started.

[yitzgar]

FYI, the power outtages were for 60 mph winds that knocked down trees and caused cars to crash on utility infrastructure. The day with the significant power outtages also had under an inch of snow accumulation in most places. Snow doesnt typically knock down power alone.

It gets quite windy in Cleveland. They are very good at trimming trees near power lines, so winds generally end up being less of an issue