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yuneeq, ChaimMoskowitz, and sometimes a couple other members talk about some Canadian game.
« Last edited by jj1000 on May 17, 2017, 10:02:20 AM »

Poll

Who will win the Cup this year?

Preds
Penguins

Author Topic: nhl  (Read 95286 times)

Offline JTZ

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Re: nhl
« Reply #2385 on: March 20, 2017, 06:35:35 PM »
Wrong.
If the player has possession it's offside, the puck does not have to be on the stick to constitute possession.
Stickhandling the puck (which is what was happening at the moment of the screenshot) is considered possession even during the moments when the puck isn't touching the stick.

Chicago broadcasters got it right.
Did not see the game or the play. From the picture I have no idea when he touches the puck. Link to a video?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline yuneeq

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Re: nhl
« Reply #2386 on: March 20, 2017, 06:37:09 PM »
Did not see the game or the play. From the picture I have no idea when he touches the puck. Link to a video?

Sure
https://streamable.com/nry0r
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Offline JTZ

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Re: nhl
« Reply #2387 on: March 20, 2017, 06:42:16 PM »
Sure
https://streamable.com/nry0r
Thanks, if they ruled he didn't have control then Toews skate touched blue line before control happened.

The Controversy: Panik carries the puck into the Avalanche zone on the left wing as Toews tags up down the middle to get back onside. However, thereís question as to whether Toews gets a skate on the blue paint before Panik touches the puck in the Colorado zone. The play is initially called onside, as the linesman judges Panikís first in-zone touch doesnít come until Toews has reached the blueline and become onside. This happens 20 seconds before the goal is scored.

Why It Counts: This oneís a bit trickier than the Panarin possession call and relies as much on the lack of evidence as anything.

First, an explanation, via Rule 83.3, which pertains to delayed offside. Per the rulebook, if ďany member of the attacking team touches the puck, attempts to gain possession of a loose puck, forces the defending puck carrier further back into his own zone, or who is about to make physical contact with the defending puck carrier, the Linesman shall stop play for the off-side violation.Ē In this instance, thereís no evidence that any of the above happens to warrant an offside call.

Which brings us to the zone entry. As Panik crosses the blueline, the puck leaves his stick. While he may technically have ďpossessionĒ at this point in his progress, heís not physically handling the puck with Toews in an offside position. As Toews comes back to the blueline, the toes of his skates appear to touch the blue paint at the instant Panik makes contact with the puck in the Avalanche zone. By the most technical of definitions, Toews is onside, even if itís a skin-of-the-teeth close call. The linesman judges that Toews is onside, and with no clearcut evidence to the contrary, the goal is allowed to stand.

Itís not as black and white as your typical offside call, and itís no wonder it took more than three minutes for a decision to be reached by the officials, but the decision appeared to be the right one by the letter of the law. Itís microscopically close, though. For the Blackhawks, itís a fortunate break that the linesman didnít blow the play dead at the moment Panik and Toews were entering the zone. As a result, the Avalanche, in a season where nothing seems to be going their way, have arguably the closest call of the campaign go against them.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 06:48:15 PM by JTZ »
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline yuneeq

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Re: nhl
« Reply #2388 on: March 20, 2017, 06:51:15 PM »
Thanks, if they ruled he didn't have control then Toews skate touched blue line before control happened.

Take off the homer-glasses for a second and notice that a player skating in with no one within 20 feet of him and the puck is off his stick for a split second while stick handling. That is considered full control/possession according to NHL rules. Imagine there was a delayed penalty and Panik picks up the puck right before the blue line, would his stickhandling past the blue line not be considered possession?
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Offline JTZ

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Re: nhl
« Reply #2389 on: March 20, 2017, 06:58:30 PM »
Take off the homer-glasses for a second and notice that a player skating in with no one within 20 feet of him and the puck is off his stick for a split second while stick handling. That is considered full control/possession according to NHL rules. Imagine there was a delayed penalty and Panik picks up the puck right before the blue line, would his stickhandling past the blue line not be considered possession?
Read the explanation. This is a totally different situation on a touch up. Either way they still win by 2 goals.  :)
This is BIG trouble for the rest of the league as they are peaking without two of their top forwards.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline yuneeq

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Re: nhl
« Reply #2390 on: March 20, 2017, 06:59:18 PM »
Read the explanation. This is a totally different situation on a touch up. Either way they still win by 2 goals.  :)
This is BIG trouble for the rest of the league as they are peaking without two of their top forwards.

Did you miss this part-
"if-  ďany member of the attacking team touches the puck, attempts to gain possession of a loose puck"
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Offline johnshek

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Re: nhl
« Reply #2391 on: March 20, 2017, 07:01:24 PM »
Wrong.
If the player has possession it's offside, the puck does not have to be on the stick to constitute possession.
Stickhandling the puck (which is what was happening at the moment of the screenshot) is considered possession even during the moments when the puck isn't touching the stick.

Chicago broadcasters got it right.
Is that a quote from a rule book? Can you link to that description? Perhaps it is considered possession but possession qualified by the last touch of the puck which was in the neutral zone. The possession would only change to be considered an offensive zone possession when the player touches the puck again?

Offline JTZ

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Re: nhl
« Reply #2392 on: March 20, 2017, 07:06:30 PM »
Did you miss this part-
"if-  ďany member of the attacking team touches the puck, attempts to gain possession of a loose puck"
I didn't miss anything. He did not attempt to gain possession of a loose puck. The officials are/were aware of the rule. They ruled he did not touch the puck in the zone before Toews touched up. That is what the video showed. Is that what the rule means?

From NHL: http://i.imgur.com/gjRDM91.jpg
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 07:09:59 PM by JTZ »
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline yuneeq

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Re: nhl
« Reply #2393 on: March 20, 2017, 07:23:13 PM »
I didn't miss anything. He did not attempt to gain possession of a loose puck. The officials are/were aware of the rule. They ruled he did not touch the puck in the zone before Toews touched up. That is what the video showed. Is that what the rule means?

From NHL: http://i.imgur.com/gjRDM91.jpg

The NHL botched the call.
It isn't a question about whether it touched his stick or not if he has possession already.
The rule says if "you attempt to gain possession of a loose puck", I'd argue maintaining possession is all that and more.
And if having the puck off the stick isn't considered possession then he was attempting to gain possession.
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Offline JTZ

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Re: nhl
« Reply #2394 on: March 20, 2017, 07:27:13 PM »
The NHL botched the call.
It isn't a question about whether it touched his stick or not if he has possession already.
The rule says if "you attempt to gain possession of a loose puck", I'd argue maintaining possession is all that and more.
And if having the puck off the stick isn't considered possession then he was attempting to gain possession.
I could be wrong but I believe the NHL is saying possession does matter in this situation. What matters is if he touched the puck in the zone before Toews touched up.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline A3

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Offline JTZ

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Re: nhl
« Reply #2396 on: March 21, 2017, 08:15:07 AM »
Call was made this way in the past....
https://www.google.com/amp/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nhl/2017/2/8/14556420/minnesota-wild-zach-parise-offside-challenge-blackhawks-inconclusive
While the rule does not make sense they got it right in both cases. Can we now move on to the real issue? Who is going to stop the Hawks from winning four Cups in eight years?  :)
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline pghtown

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Re: nhl
« Reply #2397 on: March 21, 2017, 10:25:32 AM »
I could be wrong but I believe the NHL is saying possession does matter in this situation. What matters is if he touched the puck in the zone before Toews touched up.
Rule deals with entry of the puck into the zone. Only time it is waived off is if the team brings the puck back into their own zone when an opposing player is in the zone.

Offline A3

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Re: nhl
« Reply #2398 on: March 21, 2017, 10:41:59 AM »
While the rule does not make sense they got it right in both cases. Can we now move on to the real issue? Who is going to stop the Hawks from winning four Cups in eight years?  :)
Going to the game Saturday night?

Offline JTZ

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Re: nhl
« Reply #2399 on: March 21, 2017, 12:22:51 PM »
Going to the game Saturday night?
If you have tickets for me. 🙂
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(