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Editor’s note: I know enough about this topic to be dangerous, but I’m not a true expert so please feel free to add to or edit anything in this wiki that will improve it. The FAQs contain many oversimplifications but that is intentional to make the information relatable to the audience. Thanks!

Frequently Asked Questions

What are blockchains and bitcoins and what is the difference?
A blockchain is the fundamental element in a crypto currency system. A blockchain is an accounting ledger. Each block contains a bunch of journal entries (i.e. a chronological record of transactions) that gets encrypted (by miners) but can be downloaded and read by anyone on the network. Why the blockchain ledger is secure and how we can vouch for its integrity is a slightly more advanced topic.

An accounting ledger typically keeps track of money, and a blockchain is no different. But the only type of money that it can accurately track is digital money that lives on the blockchain network. So dollars, euros, etc are out. The digital money that lives on the blockchain is called a crypto currency, and the most well-known one at this time is Bitcoin.

Currently there are a few major blockchain networks: the Bitcoin Network, the Ethereum Network, and the Litecoin Network. Each one has its own currency, which are Bitcoin, Ether, and Litecoin, respectively.

I’m just a simple DDFer and not an accountant + cryptographer + hacker all at the same time. Can you make this a little simpler to understand?
Let’s try an analogy. There is a certain website called Dansdeals.com and it has quite a following. Some of the followers are just users/readers but others are more active and produce value for the website. When they provide value, they earn currency for their work – called “EQP” and “HT”. So we have something we will call the Dansdeals Blockchain Network that is simply a record keeper of various ongoing deals and it issues a native currency that is fractionable (10,000 EQP = 1 HT). This is similar to the Blockchain network recording financial transactions and issuing bitcoins. The ones who work for the network (miners) earn bitcoins and everyone else needs to buy it to participate.

The analogy improves if you imagine that the Dansdeals website visitors have to pay a small amount, let’s say 5 EQP, in order to access a deal or a code that is recorded on the network. If the website has 30,000 followers who love deals, but only 1,000 active members who earn EQP, then you can see that there is a need for a marketplace to be created where you can buy EQP for later use.

Of course, websites are not networks, and this analogy is far from perfect. But useful.

How much is a Bitcoin worth
No one knows. A few people are speculating its worth based on the potential that Bitcoin will one day become a major world currency that people use in their daily lives. Most people though are speculating its worth based on what the next new investor will pay them for it (google “Greater Fool Investing”).

Even if a crypto currency becomes dominant, who says it will be Bitcoin? Maybe it will be Schmitcoin?
This is completely possible. Bitcoin and Ether are the most likely at this point, but their long term survival is not at all guaranteed.

So why all the fuss about Bitcoin? Shouldn’t we wait for Schmitcoin and its cousins to come out?
You could, but you don’t want to ignore how hard it is to start up a network from scratch. It may be that as little as one person can create rival code to compete with the existing digital currencies and blockchains, but one person is not a network. You need a lot of highly technical and motivated people to join you and also to invest their time, energy, and money in making that network run. It’s a highly specialized group of people, and most of the people who would fit that profile are already tied up with an existing network. So it’s not impossible, especially in the long-term, but even if it does happen it would be unlikely to pop up overnight and so Vegas odds for Bitcoin are way shorter.

Let’s go back to the Dansdeals analogy. Imagine that Dansdeals is not the only such website, and there are other websites in existence that provide similar services. For the sake of the analogy let’s call them MMS and OMAAT. They too have big enough followings to survive independently, and even though each one offers a slightly different flavor that differentiates them, anyone on one of the networks could also get their most important needs met on one of the other networks. In this analogy, do you think it’s worth collecting EQP/HT or not? After all, Schmansdeals.com could open up one day and all the business could move there.

The argument for the difficulty of starting up a rival blockchain network is much stronger than in the analogy (especially if we start to include “smart contracts” in the discussion), but the basic idea that you need a critical mass of follows to be successful and compete with existing rivals is the same.

« Last edited by yuneeq on December 25, 2017, 01:05:21 AM »

Author Topic: BitCoin Master Thread  (Read 352899 times)

Offline henche

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #160 on: August 08, 2017, 04:43:20 PM »
Digital currency is probably going to be worth something forever, starting with when it becomes a stable means of storing economic value.

What do you think that would take? I think it would take a sovereign adopting it. Which means it will be bitdollar, and not bitcoin.

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #161 on: August 08, 2017, 04:50:17 PM »
What do you think that would take? I think it would take a sovereign adopting it. Which means it will be bitdollar, and not bitcoin.

That would definitely do it, but I think wide enough individual acceptance would work too. We are so extremely far away from that goal no matter how it is eventually achieved - right now more than 90% of people would not even be able to figure out how to purchase a BTC and store it.
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #162 on: August 08, 2017, 05:02:50 PM »
What do you think that would take? I think it would take a sovereign adopting it. Which means it will be bitdollar, and not bitcoin.

Let's go with Ether since that's the one I like. Corporations may soon start adopting smart contracts because of the efficiency they bring to the current state of operations. Let's say UPS adopts Ethereum smart contracts. It's rivals will follow. So everyone who does shipping will start to demand ETH, since the code is set up to transfer coins when a contract is executed.

Everyone does some amount of shipping (on the sending or receiving end) and the usage of shipping is probably pretty stable. Assuming the number of ETH coins doesn't change rapidly, there would be some stability in the supply and demand and therefore the price.

The monkey wrench in that is successful implementation in one industry would lead to more use cases, which would change the demand side even as it should be stabilizing. So I think this is extremely far off. For now I'd just play the volatility as a gamble/bet.
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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #163 on: August 08, 2017, 05:12:54 PM »
Let's go with Ether since that's the one I like. Corporations may soon start adopting smart contracts because of the efficiency they bring to the current state of operations. Let's say UPS adopts Ethereum smart contracts. It's rivals will follow. So everyone who does shipping will start to demand ETH, since the code is set up to transfer coins when a contract is executed.

Everyone does some amount of shipping (on the sending or receiving end) and the usage of shipping is probably pretty stable. Assuming the number of ETH coins doesn't change rapidly, there would be some stability in the supply and demand and therefore the price.

The monkey wrench in that is successful implementation in one industry would lead to more use cases, which would change the demand side even as it should be stabilizing. So I think this is extremely far off. For now I'd just play the volatility as a gamble/bet.

I donno what Ether or Ethereum is.

So long as Company A pays $100 and Company B receives $100 minus fees, I don't think either will care that you called it a banana peel in between.  And if Ethereum wants to give Hacker A free dollars for having been an early adopter, I don't think Company A or B will care.

But why would the company that is running a smart contract exchange give out free money?

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #164 on: August 08, 2017, 05:14:34 PM »
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/BitCoen-to-become-first-electronic-currency-specifically-for-Jews-501885

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #165 on: August 08, 2017, 05:15:36 PM »
That would definitely do it, but I think wide enough individual acceptance would work too. We are so extremely far away from that goal no matter how it is eventually achieved - right now more than 90% of people would not even be able to figure out how to purchase a BTC and store it.

I see the allure that if everyone would merely decide as a convention that bitcoin is worth money, then it would therefore be.

And I even see how that is more likely than everyone deciding that acorns are worth money, since bitcoins are easier to transfer.

But on the realm of likely to not likely,I see both of those as very unlikely. 

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #166 on: August 08, 2017, 05:18:57 PM »
I donno what Ether or Ethereum is.

So long as Company A pays $100 and Company B receives $100 minus fees, I don't think either will care that you called it a banana peel in between.  And if Ethereum wants to give Hacker A free dollars for having been an early adopter, I don't think Company A or B will care.

But why would the company that is running a smart contract exchange give out free money?

Who is giving out free money?

The contracts are set up to execute automatically when conditions are fulfilled. If the code is set up to transfer a fixed amount of Ether currency for each unit of shipping (let's say for this example that a unit is 1lb delivered 100miles), then the receiver needs to have that amount of this currency times the number of shipping units consumed in order to pay for the service. Sure, you can buy them on the spot by converting $USD to ETH, but if this is going on all the time then you'll probably end up keeping the ETH you earn to pay for your future shipping needs rather than selling them back. That should lead to greater stability in the cost per unit of shipping service, and as a result, the exchange price of ETH into other currency.
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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #167 on: August 08, 2017, 05:20:28 PM »
An old roommate emailed me about bitcoin in 2010 or so, how hes making $ on it, I thought it was a spam email so I deleted it haha

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #168 on: August 08, 2017, 05:21:57 PM »
I see the allure that if everyone would merely decide as a convention that bitcoin is worth money, then it would therefore be.

And I even see how that is more likely than everyone deciding that acorns are worth money, since bitcoins are easier to transfer.

But on the realm of likely to not likely,I see both of those as very unlikely.

If your company started paying your salary in BTC, and your bank/landlord started accepting BTC as payment for your home, you'd very quickly start viewing BTC as your primary currency and $USD as secondary. Think of why the USD is more stable in Israel than the shekel is.

Unlikely? I agree with you, in the near and medium term for sure.
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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #169 on: August 08, 2017, 05:28:35 PM »
Who is giving out free money?

The contracts are set up to execute automatically when conditions are fulfilled. If the code is set up to transfer a fixed amount of Ether currency for each unit of shipping (let's say for this example that a unit is 1lb delivered 100miles), then the receiver needs to have that amount of this currency times the number of shipping units consumed in order to pay for the service. Sure, you can buy them on the spot by converting $USD to ETH, but if this is going on all the time then you'll probably end up keeping the ETH you earn to pay for your future shipping needs rather than selling them back. That should lead to greater stability in the cost per unit of shipping service, and as a result, the exchange price of ETH into other currency.

Yes, and that entire system can much more easily work with dollars. But let's suppose there is a reason to convert it to shmitcoin in between.

So now, suppose you are setting up that system and big businesses are going to buy in.  And you have an existing cryptocurrency that you've been peddling for a few years and that a few rich ppl in China own 80% of (let's call this one bitcoin).  So you could adopt bitcoin as your operating currency, which means that when the rich China person comes to cash in, you'll owe him $$$. Or you could adopt shmitcoin and start from scratch and owe nobody nothing.

I mean, haven't you basically just combined an escrow service with a cryptocurrency, and neither needs the other?

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #170 on: August 08, 2017, 05:29:22 PM »
If your company started paying your salary in BTC, and your bank/landlord started accepting BTC as payment for your home, you'd very quickly start viewing BTC as your primary currency and $USD as secondary. Think of why the USD is more stable in Israel than the shekel is.

Unlikely? I agree with you, in the near and medium term for sure.

yes, or bananas.

And I agree that bitcoin is more likely than bananas, but less likely than confederate script.

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Re: Whats the story with BitCoins ?
« Reply #171 on: August 08, 2017, 05:37:59 PM »
Anyone know how to buy bitcoin? I think it's gonna bust but the most you can lose is 100% and you can gain a lot. I think it has a good shot at shooting up again, esp if Eric Posner is correct about it.

So I giyf, but I don't trust any of the info I'm seeing, especially since all of it says not to trust anyone else. Any ddf'ers sell bitcoin? I'll buy a bit.

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #172 on: August 08, 2017, 05:40:06 PM »
yes, or bananas.

And I agree that bitcoin is more likely than bananas, but less likely than confederate script.

No, because the Ethereum smart contract has a monopoly on which currency gets transferred when execution is confirmed. And you can't just build a smart contract ecosystem out of thin air.
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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #174 on: August 08, 2017, 05:44:27 PM »
No, because the Ethereum smart contract has a monopoly on which currency gets transferred when execution is confirmed. And you can't just build a smart contract ecosystem out of thin air.

Again, I don't know anything about this, but it sounds like a glorified escrow service.

So sure, if you have all the market share, you could tell your customers that their $$$ needs to be converted back and forth into bitcoin. But why would you, unless you held the bitcoin? And if you did hold the bitcoin, I don't see how you cash out, since as far as your customers are concerned, it's just $$ in and $$ out, so you need to convince some customers to not cash out, and you'd basically just be borrowing from them.


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Re: Whats the story with BitCoins ?
« Reply #175 on: August 08, 2017, 05:44:41 PM »
.

You want to buy directly from a ddf'er? Don't trust the exchanges or want personal assistance? There's a bar on 57th in Manhattan that has people who will trade you $ for BTC in person to help you get into the space. Either way you'd see the transaction on the blockchain, whether you buy it in person or over am exchange.
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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #176 on: August 08, 2017, 05:54:06 PM »
https://blockgeeks.com/guides/smart-contracts/

Yes, this a dream.

Sure, it sounds great--if the landlord gives me the key, and the date comes, then he gets paid.  But how does the system know if I got the key? It's attached to a tracking number on UPS. But what if it's a fake key? 

And even if all the kinks are worked out--why not dollars? Uber charges you automatically if the car comes to your house, and the driver hits pickup, and takes you to your destination and hits dropoff--and all in dollars, not in ubercoin. 

And suppose Uber tried to start using only Bitcoin, that would be fine with me so long as rate was still pegged to dollars. But if the rate was pegged to Bitcoin, then Uber would quickly join Fruber.

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #177 on: August 08, 2017, 06:00:52 PM »
Again, I don't know anything about this, but it sounds like a glorified escrow service.

So sure, if you have all the market share, you could tell your customers that their $$$ needs to be converted back and forth into bitcoin. But why would you, unless you held the bitcoin? And if you did hold the bitcoin, I don't see how you cash out, since as far as your customers are concerned, it's just $$ in and $$ out, so you need to convince some customers to not cash out, and you'd basically just be borrowing from them.

Remember tbat if I'm UPS then I collect tons of these coins and need to extract their economic value. It's not efficient to convert them to a different currency all the time. They would pay their workers with these coins, and anyone else who tbey can force to accept them.

On the flip side, if I'm a major manufacturer who does a lot of shipping, I'm going to want to own coins all the time rather than trying to acquire them 'just in time'. So maybe I buy a big bunch all at once, lend them out and ask for repayment in that currency, or charge my buyers for  shipping costs in that currency.

In short, create an economy for it. Until then its not a currency but as you say an escrow. I think that the potential to make economic demand for cryptocurrency exists, that's all. How that will happen is hard to imagine.
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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #178 on: August 08, 2017, 06:07:17 PM »
https://blockgeeks.com/guides/smart-contracts/

Yes, this a dream.

Sure, it sounds great--if the landlord gives me the key, and the date comes, then he gets paid.  But how does the system know if I got the key? It's attached to a tracking number on UPS. But what if it's a fake key? 

And even if all the kinks are worked out--why not dollars? Uber charges you automatically if the car comes to your house, and the driver hits pickup, and takes you to your destination and hits dropoff--and all in dollars, not in ubercoin. 

And suppose Uber tried to start using only Bitcoin, that would be fine with me so long as rate was still pegged to dollars. But if the rate was pegged to Bitcoin, then Uber would quickly join Fruber.

Because the key would not be a 20th century key. It would be an encrypted digital key that is digitally signed and easily verified as real. Plus the door would report to the blockchain that you used your key to access the apartment.

I don't think Ubercoin could be part of an Uber contract because you can't create an economy out of just travel.

I hope I don't sound like I'm shilling for this. Just trying to explain how I think this stuff is meant to work.
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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #179 on: August 08, 2017, 06:31:17 PM »
Digital currency is probably going to be worth something forever, starting with when it becomes a stable means of storing economic value.

Like the US dollar or other fiat currencies?
I don't think it needs to store value. It needs to provide value, and the fact that it is electronic, transfers quickly, has very low fees for international transfers, and is already well known and accepted worldwide means it already provides plenty of value.
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