Topic Wiki

Editor’s note: I know enough about this topic to be dangerous, but I’m not a true expert so please feel free to add to or edit anything in this wiki that will improve it. The FAQs contain many oversimplifications but that is intentional to make the information relatable to the audience. Thanks!

Frequently Asked Questions

What are blockchains and bitcoins and what is the difference?
A blockchain is the fundamental element in a crypto currency system. A blockchain is an accounting ledger. Each block contains a bunch of journal entries (i.e. a chronological record of transactions) that gets encrypted (by miners) but can be downloaded and read by anyone on the network. Why the blockchain ledger is secure and how we can vouch for its integrity is a slightly more advanced topic.

An accounting ledger typically keeps track of money, and a blockchain is no different. But the only type of money that it can accurately track is digital money that lives on the blockchain network. So dollars, euros, etc are out. The digital money that lives on the blockchain is called a crypto currency, and the most well-known one at this time is Bitcoin.

Currently there are a few major blockchain networks: the Bitcoin Network, the Ethereum Network, and the Litecoin Network. Each one has its own currency, which are Bitcoin, Ether, and Litecoin, respectively.

I’m just a simple DDFer and not an accountant + cryptographer + hacker all at the same time. Can you make this a little simpler to understand?
Let’s try an analogy. There is a certain website called Dansdeals.com and it has quite a following. Some of the followers are just users/readers but others are more active and produce value for the website. When they provide value, they earn currency for their work – called “EQP” and “HT”. So we have something we will call the Dansdeals Blockchain Network that is simply a record keeper of various ongoing deals and it issues a native currency that is fractionable (10,000 EQP = 1 HT). This is similar to the Blockchain network recording financial transactions and issuing bitcoins. The ones who work for the network (miners) earn bitcoins and everyone else needs to buy it to participate.

The analogy improves if you imagine that the Dansdeals website visitors have to pay a small amount, let’s say 5 EQP, in order to access a deal or a code that is recorded on the network. If the website has 30,000 followers who love deals, but only 1,000 active members who earn EQP, then you can see that there is a need for a marketplace to be created where you can buy EQP for later use.

Of course, websites are not networks, and this analogy is far from perfect. But useful.

How much is a Bitcoin worth
No one knows. A few people are speculating its worth based on the potential that Bitcoin will one day become a major world currency that people use in their daily lives. Most people though are speculating its worth based on what the next new investor will pay them for it (google “Greater Fool Investing”).

Even if a crypto currency becomes dominant, who says it will be Bitcoin? Maybe it will be Schmitcoin?
This is completely possible. Bitcoin and Ether are the most likely at this point, but their long term survival is not at all guaranteed.

So why all the fuss about Bitcoin? Shouldn’t we wait for Schmitcoin and its cousins to come out?
You could, but you don’t want to ignore how hard it is to start up a network from scratch. It may be that as little as one person can create rival code to compete with the existing digital currencies and blockchains, but one person is not a network. You need a lot of highly technical and motivated people to join you and also to invest their time, energy, and money in making that network run. It’s a highly specialized group of people, and most of the people who would fit that profile are already tied up with an existing network. So it’s not impossible, especially in the long-term, but even if it does happen it would be unlikely to pop up overnight and so Vegas odds for Bitcoin are way shorter.

Let’s go back to the Dansdeals analogy. Imagine that Dansdeals is not the only such website, and there are other websites in existence that provide similar services. For the sake of the analogy let’s call them MMS and OMAAT. They too have big enough followings to survive independently, and even though each one offers a slightly different flavor that differentiates them, anyone on one of the networks could also get their most important needs met on one of the other networks. In this analogy, do you think it’s worth collecting EQP/HT or not? After all, Schmansdeals.com could open up one day and all the business could move there.

The argument for the difficulty of starting up a rival blockchain network is much stronger than in the analogy (especially if we start to include “smart contracts” in the discussion), but the basic idea that you need a critical mass of follows to be successful and compete with existing rivals is the same.

« Last edited by yuneeq on December 25, 2017, 01:05:21 AM »

Author Topic: BitCoin Master Thread  (Read 354109 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #740 on: January 18, 2018, 11:00:34 AM »
Yes, its the argument people us against crypto but its not a great comparison imo because big companies and countries are investing in the crypto technology/ trying to make their own
Their trying to make their own makes the value of bitcoin higher or lower?
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Offline Redbull3

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #741 on: January 18, 2018, 11:01:03 AM »
Personally, I can't wait to send money to China using crypto, I will do it the day my supplier accepts it.
We spend $80 ($40 for each side) to wire money, I have to fill out endless forms and make sure I didn't make any mistakes, and it takes 2 days to arrive. I don't think that use will happen for me anytime soon but when it does, it will have loads of value to me.
But doesn't the volatility make you nervous? Wouldn't you also need the market to stabilize before actually USING this product? $80 fee is nothing compared to a $1000 drop in the value of a bitcoin. And it's another reason they may not want to accept it just yet. No?

Offline henche

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #742 on: January 18, 2018, 11:01:21 AM »
Block chain can have many uses, but that doesn't give cryptocurrency value, and certainly not a particular one.

If smart contracts become a thing, they can be settled with dollars that will be held by a bank and evidenced in the block chain.  Or any of a million other ways.   Personally, I think smart contacts are as likely to be a thing as beanie babies

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #743 on: January 18, 2018, 11:01:32 AM »
Nobody uses bit coin as currency.  You can also use potato pork belly futures contracts for barter, and is a much better idea because their value is much more stable.
:)
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Offline aygart

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #744 on: January 18, 2018, 11:03:06 AM »
I didnt say the value is only because of a craze. Partially? Yes. The other side is that the reason it went so far down was an inverse effect of the craze which also would correct itself.But again, the market long term has trended way up so even if it didnt go up as much, it was likely to rebound a good amount
Tell that to the people who invested in Lucent Technologies in 1999
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Offline aygart

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #745 on: January 18, 2018, 11:05:11 AM »
Block chain can have many uses, but that doesn't give cryptocurrency value, and certainly not a particular one.
What is the value of a yuneeqly encrypted bit of information? It has some value, but most of the value is in the system and algorithm used to create it as intellectual property. The number itself has the value of the resources used to create it.
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Offline Yitzshpitz

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #746 on: January 18, 2018, 11:07:07 AM »
Tell that to the people who invested in Lucent Technologies in 1999

There are examples of technologies that have failed and others that have thrived im not sure what your point of dispute is and how your example reflects upon crypto.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #747 on: January 18, 2018, 11:19:28 AM »
1. #fakenews to get to 22 "major" stores the article you posted above needed to resort to companies like Bitcoin Travel and stores where independent payment providers are willing to accept bitcoin to pay them in dollars. People were also willing to trade dotcom stocks and tulip bulbs. Until they weren't.
2. #fakenews Anything number based is by definition infinite. The limited number of encryptions that this algorithm can create only means that if found to be profitable to do so a better algorithm with more available encryptions will replace it and render it valueless.
3. How would you deal with the volatility which can cost much more than the cost of wiring something stable. The trading interest in it prevents it from becoming viable as a currency.

1. Thats just the first article I googled. There are tens of thousands of websites and retail businesses that accept BTC, LTC, BCH, and etc. Many of them accept directly. Most through a payment provider. Thousands of charities accept donations in crypto. And many people accept crypto as payment, some for illicit purposes. Its not fake news just because you decide it is. But we can see your argument evolve as time goes on. Also, many experts say tulip mania is never really happened.

2. Lol. We are talking about all crypto but you're still talking about specifically Bitcoin? Do you see someone arguing?

3. After 9 years we are still in the infancy of crypto. I believe it will stabilize as it matures and the stupid money starts to fall away.
But regardless, if I can send my supplier crypto that they receive instantly and cash out instantly, there is very little to worry about.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #748 on: January 18, 2018, 11:22:09 AM »
But doesn't the volatility make you nervous? Wouldn't you also need the market to stabilize before actually USING this product? $80 fee is nothing compared to a $1000 drop in the value of a bitcoin. And it's another reason they may not want to accept it just yet. No?

I probably wouldn't send Bitcoin, due to the slowness and cost of the network. But if I could send RaiBlocks its instant and free, so

...if I can send my supplier crypto that they receive instantly and cash out instantly, there is very little to worry about.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #749 on: January 18, 2018, 11:26:18 AM »
I probably wouldn't send Bitcoin, due to the slowness and cost of the network. But if I could send RaiBlocks its instant and free, so
Has there ever been any issues with RaiBlocks (full disclosure, never heard of it) cashing out in USD instantly?
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Offline aygart

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #750 on: January 18, 2018, 11:34:02 AM »
There are examples of technologies that have failed and others that have thrived im not sure what your point of dispute is and how your example reflects upon crypto.
It has everything to do with the line of reasoning of yours which I quoted. BTW, Lucent (now a unit of Alcatel) remains a valuable company and their technology continues to thrive.
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Offline lubaby

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #751 on: January 18, 2018, 11:34:32 AM »
which tax office accepts bitcoin?
Not yet, and the processing (middleman) system would convert the BTC to USD value, but here's a start in that direction:

http://bitguru.co.uk/arizona-looking-at-accepting-tax-in-crypto/

Offline aygart

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #752 on: January 18, 2018, 11:40:20 AM »
1. Thats just the first article I googled. There are tens of thousands of websites and retail businesses that accept BTC, LTC, BCH, and etc. Many of them accept directly. Most through a payment provider. Thousands of charities accept donations in crypto. And many people accept crypto as payment, some for illicit purposes. Its not fake news just because you decide it is. But we can see your argument evolve as time goes on. Also, many experts say tulip mania is never really happened.

2. Lol. We are talking about all crypto but you're still talking about specifically Bitcoin? Do you see someone arguing?

3. After 9 years we are still in the infancy of crypto. I believe it will stabilize as it matures and the stupid money starts to fall away.
But regardless, if I can send my supplier crypto that they receive instantly and cash out instantly, there is very little to worry about.
1. That a charity accepts bitcoin is irrelevant. THat some shady guy accepts bitcoin is irrelevant. That some websites accept it is also irrelevant. That can change with the click of a button. If they have a reliable way to accept it as payment and get it to their preferred currency at the value they want then they can accept grains of sand as well.

2. What I wrote there will apply to any crypto. I did not mention bitcoin there at all. Even when I do it is only as an example. Anything that has the same atributes as btcoin has the same arguments whether or not it is called bitcoin.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #753 on: January 18, 2018, 11:42:09 AM »
Has there ever been any issues with RaiBlocks (full disclosure, never heard of it) cashing out in USD instantly?

It's a small crypto, but just so you understand - if you want to instantly cash out you need to sell it on an exchange.
I know that 2 exchanges were having issues with too much volume but they fixed the issue. There are about 7-8 exchanges already so if one is having an issue you can take your holdings elsewhere.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #754 on: January 18, 2018, 11:46:57 AM »
Peter Smith of Blockchain states it is not a currency or a payment system. It is an investment!!! Do we need more of an expert?
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #755 on: January 18, 2018, 12:12:02 PM »
1. That a charity accepts bitcoin is irrelevant. THat some shady guy accepts bitcoin is irrelevant. That some websites accept it is also irrelevant. That can change with the click of a button. If they have a reliable way to accept it as payment and get it to their preferred currency at the value they want then they can accept grains of sand as well.

2. What I wrote there will apply to any crypto. I did not mention bitcoin there at all. Even when I do it is only as an example. Anything that has the same atributes as btcoin has the same arguments whether or not it is called bitcoin.

1. Can you send sand instantly for free around the world? Can you use sand to pay your drug dealer? Because you might not realize that drugs and other illicit payments will never go away.

2. You said that a crypto can be undermined by another crypto. Which is true. But that doesn't make all crypto worthless just because you said so. The dollar has value more than simply a form of tax payments even though there are currencies that are intrinsically better. When millions of people believe and use something, it has value whether you like it or not.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #756 on: January 18, 2018, 12:13:53 PM »
Peter Smith of Blockchain states it is not a currency or a payment system. It is an investment!!! Do we need more of an expert?

Bitcoin as it is right now is not a currency or payment system, correct.
I will repeat again that Bitcoin is overvalued, especially compared to other coins that do a much better job.

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Offline ExGingi

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #757 on: January 18, 2018, 12:15:00 PM »
I have said many times in the past hour that some cryptos are "overvalued", but don't confuse "overvalued" for "useless".

When we say something is overvalued, that implies that there's a certain value, and a method to reach or find out that value.

Could you please educate this curious soul as to what the current value of a Bitcoin is, and how you arrive at that value. Once we can have that (hopefully objective) information, we can all easily make our own educated decision at any given time on whether it is overvalued or not.

And now for a question about the currency/money aspects of Bitcoin (and other cryptocurrencies): If you were to run a business, that transacts daily, weekly and monthly with other entities (be it individuals, other businesses, or government agencies) that don't accept Bitcoin as a form of payment. How comfortable would you be transacting in Bitcoin with anyone who wishes to do so with you, without having some sort of insurance (in the form of options or futures contracts) so that you have some level of certainty about the convertibility of the Bitcoin to a medium that is universally accepted?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #758 on: January 18, 2018, 12:21:52 PM »
Bitcoin as it is right now is not a currency or payment system, correct.
I will repeat again that Bitcoin is overvalued, especially compared to other coins that do a much better job.
Remember this is the BitCoin Master Thread!!! This is what I am talking about. Others have asked and I will ask again. What metric are you using to value BitCoin?
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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #759 on: January 18, 2018, 12:28:52 PM »
Remember this is the BitCoin Master Thread!!! This is what I am talking about. Others have asked and I will ask again. What metric are you using to value BitCoin?
or any other cypto.
Feelings don't care about your facts