Author Topic: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding  (Read 19714 times)

Offline meshugener

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2013, 08:51:54 AM »
Right, but then he also showed the tiefe masmid that his tiefe learning was every bit as precious to Gd as is the thilim of a simple Jew.


And I'm not implying that was his intention, but that was the unavoidable result.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2013, 09:02:28 AM »
their tehilim was every bit as precious to Gd as is the tiefe learning of a masmid. (Not them)
-1.
Gd put everyone down here and gave them abilities and talents for a reason...every jew has the same value to him.

Right, but then he also showed the tiefe masmid that his tiefe learning was every bit as precious to Gd as is the thilim of a simple Jew.

And I'm not implying that was his intention, but that was the unavoidable result.
A little anivus never hurt anyone.  Everyone has their mission, if being a masmid if your mission that's fantastic, but that doesn't make you better than someone who wasn't given those abilities and serves hashem in his own way.
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Offline Moshe123

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2013, 09:08:18 AM »
I brought it as an example. A lot of chassidim are unfortunately more involved in the politics/matzav of their chassidus than in actual chassidus. Would they be better off without chassidus? Definitely not. But it sure is a downgrade from how it was originally intended...

Again, such a small minority.
They belong to a chassidus and therefore they dress Jewishly (unlike uhm...), the yarmulke isn't getting smaller (unlike uhm...), their tzitzis isn't hidden (unlike uhm...), they don't shave their beards (which gadol ever shaved??), their wives don't wear בגדי שחץ (unlike...) are kove'a ittim because they belong to a shtibel, have a taam in yiddishkeit. Their heads aren't all day rosho ve'rubo in gashmius and I can go on and on. In America, the contrast is so stark.

Offline ChAiM'l

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2013, 09:12:42 AM »
Again, such a small minority.
They belong to a chassidus and therefore they dress Jewishly (unlike uhm...), the yarmulke isn't getting smaller (unlike uhm...), their tzitzis isn't hidden (unlike uhm...), they don't shave their beards (which gadol ever shaved??), their wives don't wear בגדי שחץ (unlike...) are kove'a ittim because they belong to a shtibel, have a taam in yiddishkeit. Their heads aren't all day rosho ve'rubo in gashmius and I can go on and on. In America, the contrast is so stark.

I won't agree with you on all your points, but like I said-

Would they be better off without chassidus? Definitely not.

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2013, 09:19:57 AM »
I won't agree with you on all your points, but like I said-

And I can add Are the others' yiddishkeit better without chassidus? No

There is no point in arguing? Just look how most chassidishe women and girls dress and how most non-chassidishe women dress. One looks yiddish and one dresses more pritzusdig  than was accepted even in NY 50 years ago.

Offline sky121

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2013, 09:53:06 AM »
And I can add Are the others' yiddishkeit better without chassidus? No

There is no point in arguing? Just look how most chassidishe women and girls dress and how most non-chassidishe women dress. One looks yiddish and one dresses more pritzusdig  than was accepted even in NY 50 years ago.

Not everyone dresses pritzusdig. At all. It is a problem now a days even in the frummer communities but there are plenty of girls/women who dress tznius.

IME most chassidish girls don't really understand the concept of tznius as they should. This problem occurs with Yeshivish girls as well but on a smaller scale.

"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2013, 10:16:34 AM »
Not everyone dresses pritzusdig. At all. It is a problem now a days even in the frummer communities but there are plenty of girls/women who dress tznius.

IME most chassidish girls don't really understand the concept of tznius as they should. This problem occurs with Yeshivish girls as well but on a smaller scale.

The terms I use for chassidishe women in general is They can be more tzniusdig and on the non-chassidishe it's mostly They could've been more pritzusdig

Offline sky121

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2013, 10:24:41 AM »
Meanwhile there is no question that there is pros to being raised chassidish, the argument was/is that there are things that have become part of the chassidsh culture that aren't what the Baal shem tov intended IMO.

No one should have to defend the sect they are in. All sects have their pros and cons. Didn't Hashem mean for their to be all different Jews in the world ?
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2013, 10:26:02 AM »
Meanwhile there is no question that there is pros to being raised chassidish, the argument was/is that there are things that have become part of the chassidsh culture that aren't what the Baal shem tov intended IMO.

No one should have to defend the sect they are in. All sects have their pros and cons. Didn't Hashem mean for their to be all different Jews in the world ?

Jews aren't perfect. Nothing to do with chassidus though. Otherwise, I agree.

Offline sky121

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2013, 10:28:19 AM »
Jews aren't perfect. Nothing to do with chassidus though. Otherwise, I agree.

I think a lot of the problems stem from trying to put your ways on other people which for obvious reasons happens more with chassdish people.

The "frummer" ones trying to place their 'standards' on everyone else and the lack of teaching and understanding that they aren't right and others wrong but that all are different.



Also, I'm not sure if it's justified or not but in general people have higher standards for chassidim so when they do things that are off others tend to hold more animosity towards them.

"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2013, 10:34:03 AM »
I think a lot of the problems stem from trying to put your ways on other people which for obvious reasons happens more with chassdish people.

The "frummer" ones trying to place their 'standards' on everyone else and the lack of teaching and understanding that they aren't right and others wrong but that all are different.



Also, I'm not sure if it's justified or not but in general people have higher standards for chassidim so when they do things that are off others tend to hold more animosity towards them.

Any recent examples?

I'm Belz, but when was the last time Satmar made a ruckus about anything outside of willitown, or has Belz, Vizhnitz etc. ever imposed anything on anyone? Yes, Skver is crazy in NS and only there. I didn't even mention every other chassidus out there. Gur? Rachmistrivke? Boyan? Stolin? etc.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2013, 11:22:20 AM »
-1.
Gd put everyone down here and gave them abilities and talents for a reason...every jew has the same value to him.
A little anivus never hurt anyone.  Everyone has their mission, if being a masmid if your mission that's fantastic, but that doesn't make you better than someone who wasn't given those abilities and serves hashem in his own way.
All jews are precious gems etc.  But Just like in any army some drive trucks and some are seal team six. . . Shevet levi are holier, it does not mean that any jew is not vital for the world just like in a army the truker is vital.
{Btw. Im not implying that I am not a trucker, its totaly not about me.}

Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2013, 12:49:03 PM »
ok.  I didn't mean to start this up like this.  When I said the Baal shem tov saved yiddishkeit I just was repeating what i always heard from my father.  The chofetz chaim of course didn't need the Baal shem tov but what about his pashute balabatishe parents?   What would the world have looked like when the chofetz chaim came into the world?

In the risk of starting more trouble I beleive the quote is something like " the whole world was sad and depressed so the Baal shem tov came and brought a simcha into the world.  This lasted until the baalei musar came to return the depression  to the world" ;)

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #73 on: May 04, 2014, 12:30:13 AM »
Had a girl today.

Offline TimT

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #74 on: May 04, 2014, 01:11:35 AM »
Had a girl today.
Mazal tov. Do they know yet who the chosson will be ?

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #75 on: May 04, 2014, 01:18:41 AM »
You're confusing Belz with Vizhnitz Monsey...

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #76 on: June 08, 2014, 02:57:02 PM »
And off I go again...
I bought my ticket today, so I didn't have time to borrow binoculars from Amazon...

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #77 on: June 08, 2014, 03:01:51 PM »
And off I go again...
I bought my ticket today, so I didn't have time to borrow binoculars from Amazon...
So how will we recognize you? :(

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #78 on: June 08, 2014, 03:04:28 PM »
 :)

Offline Super Speed

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Re: Belzer Rebbes Grandsons wedding
« Reply #79 on: June 08, 2014, 10:58:00 PM »

And off I go again...
I bought my ticket today, so I didn't have time to borrow binoculars from Amazon...
What's the occasion?