FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested

[avromie7]

no its not. there are few cases that bais din may use force, but in genaral the wording get meuseh is used for a pasul get. instead of arguing and figuring out which posek said what and if its a rumor, learn the gemara and rishonim and you will find out why almost all reliable poskim would say that the children are mamzairim, the only problem is that its impossible to know what/where/when/why/how the men were coerced so many poskim would be hesitant to anounce their psak but their gut feeling is to believe parts of the mens side of the story making it a get pasul

Thank you finally someone who doesn't automatically believe the woman that her husband is abusive and that is the only reason he is holding back a get

[dans fan]

Thank you finally someone who doesn't automatically believe the woman that her husband is abusive and that is the only reason he is holding back a get

evan if he was abusing her  not necessarily is it enough to force a get

[JayR]

no its not. there are few cases that bais din may use force, but in genaral the wording get meuseh is used for a pasul get. instead of arguing and figuring out which posek said what and if its a rumor, learn the gemara and rishonim and you will find out why almost all reliable poskim would say that the children are mamzairim, the only problem is that its impossible to know what/where/when/why/how the men were coerced so many poskim would be hesitant to anounce their psak but their gut feeling is to believe parts of the mens side of the story making it a get pasul

Thank you finally someone who doesn't automatically believe the woman that her husband is abusive and that is the only reason he is holding back a get +1

FTFY

[avromie7]

evan if he was abusing her  not necessarily is it enough to force a get

100% true but it starts from there and then there are all the other requirements

[grodnoking]

100% true but it starts from there and then there are all the other requirements

I did learn the reshonim and achronim, and even if bes din had a wrong reason to do it the children are still not mamzerim! There are cases in which bes din should do it, but even cases that they did it for a wrong reason, the way of forcing the get still makes it a kosher get!

no its not. there are few cases that bais din may use force, but in genaral the wording get meuseh is used for a pasul get. instead of arguing and figuring out which posek said what and if its a rumor, learn the gemara and rishonim and you will find out why almost all reliable poskim would say that the children are mamzairim, the only problem is that its impossible to know what/where/when/why/how the men were coerced so many poskim would be hesitant to anounce their psak but their gut feeling is to believe parts of the mens side of the story making it a get pasul

[avromie7]

I did learn the reshonim and achronim, and even if bes din had a wrong reason to do it the children are still not mamzerim! There are cases in which bes din should do it, but even cases that they did it for a wrong reason, the way of forcing the get still makes it a kosher get!

wrong there are many cases where he is NOT required to give the get and the children are mamzerim there are other cases where the bais din had no right to force him yet the children are not mamzerim.
I am not saying all of them are mamzerim but some definitely are

[grodnoking]

wrong there are many cases where he is NOT required to give the get and the children are mamzerim there are other cases where the bais din had no right to force him yet the children are not mamzerim.
I am not saying all of them are mamzerim but some definitely are

I learned alot in this specific sugua, and I agree the are many complications. But I hav a post further up the thread which states why im not worried. And alot of people are basing their reasons for assuming that the rabbis where doing this whole thing woth the wrong Intention, on false reasons (such as taking a huge sum of $, which I know was needed but they think was taken for the rabbis pleasure). Anyhow this argument will never end umong the uneducated fully ppl in this topic (including me), so I am going to try and stop posting in this thread.

[avromie7]

I learned alot in this specific sugua, and I agree the are many complications. But I hav a post further up the thread which states why im not worried. And alot of people are basing their reasons for assuming that the rabbis where doing this whole thing woth the wrong Intention, on false reasons (such as taking a huge sum of $, which I know was needed but they think was taken for the rabbis pleasure). Anyhow this argument will never end umong the uneducated fully ppl in this topic (including me), so I am going to try and stop posting in this thread.

taking huge sums of money is one of MANY issues

BTW which one of those arrested are you related to

[grodnoking]

taking huge sums of money is one of MANY issues

BTW which one of those arrested are you related to

None. Just know slightly not really one of the plane owners. I have no shaychis to him what so ever so I have no reason to stand up for him but thats why I say it costs huge sums of money.

[Drago]

My contribution to this discussion.

[skyguy918]

Whatever the din is or is not,let me quote a gemara with meforshim:
1 shita: mamzerim after 3 generations will be "butl".
2 shita: after 10 generations.
With in that tgere are two shitas
1: butl means they will die out.
2: butl means they will be considered regular ppl, because once something is "listed" in a category in this world it is too in the one above  ( note that all this is talking about that no one knows that they're mamzerim for 3/10 gen.)

Another totally different shita holds that once mashiach comes all ppl with defects will be healed, and says a mamzer Is a person with a defect so they will be "healed".

So im not upset.
Nor do I belive they did something asur (besides for chillul of THE NAME).

I learned alot in this specific sugua, and I agree the are many complications. But I hav a post further up the thread which states why im not worried. And alot of people are basing their reasons for assuming that the rabbis where doing this whole thing woth the wrong Intention, on false reasons (such as taking a huge sum of $, which I know was needed but they think was taken for the rabbis pleasure). Anyhow this argument will never end umong the uneducated fully ppl in this topic (including me), so I am going to try and stop posting in this thread.

Your first point seems to be that it's not a big deal if they did cause mamzerim. However you want to interpret the gemara you quoted above, the weight of many, many sugyos in shas falls on the side of it being a big deal.

Your second point was that you don't believe they did anything asur. To that I ask, assume for a moment that what you say its true for all the instances that they forced a get in the past. How can you say they did nothing asur during the course of the sting operation?

[dans fan]

I did learn the reshonim and achronim, and even if bes din had a wrong reason to do it the children are still not mamzerim! There are cases in which bes din should do it, but even cases that they did it for a wrong reason, the way of forcing the get still makes it a kosher get!

you either never learned it or didnt understood one word in the entire because the above statement couldnt be further from the truth (from the way you comment the first option would seem true)

[rots5]

THAT'S IT HE SHOULD SIT FOREVER FOR ALL THE MAMZERIM HE MADE 

I hate you! Your a sick puppy. you are a terrible human being! DDMF!

[avromie7]

I hate you! Your a sick puppy. you are a terrible human being! DDMF!

Did I say something wrong or untrue?

[rots5]

Did I say something wrong or untrue?

Your breathing is all wrong... you should stop

[avromie7]

Your breathing is all wrong... you should stop

Huh?
You still never brought forth an argument to anything I said

[aygart]

Huh?
You still never brought forth an argument to anything I said

it's not like you said anything yourself. Maybe if you would say something other than just babbling about life sentences and mamzeirim then people would respond differently. If you would talk substance then people would answer with substance and maybe even agree.

[avromie7]

it's not like you said anything yourself. Maybe if you would say something other than just babbling about life sentences and mamzeirim then people would respond differently. If you would talk substance then people would answer with substance and maybe even agree.

Did I not mention get meusah

[real-brisker]

Did I not mention get meusah

Did I not mention WhatsApp

[aygart]

Did I not mention get meusah

you don't really call that substantive I hope. We all know that there are cases where kofin so stop just talking narishkeit. If you have something of substance to say then do so. If not just keep quiet.