Car Lease v. Buying

[alpicone]

So, if reliability matters very much to you, i.e. if you can't afford to wake up in the morning every once in a while and have to deal with your car not starting, or your brakes not working properly, it is a safer bet to lease. However, if you can handle trouble every now and then, like your car overheating on the highway or not starting up in the morning, you will indeed save money buying.

Most of this is irrational fear of the "what if" which is causing you to make flawed decisions. Most of these reasons listed are non-issues for the most part:

1) deal with your car not starting - 99% of the time it is due to a bad battery. Batteries last 5-7 years and usually die in the winter. If you want to avoid this issue change your battery after 5 years or wait until it dies, get a boost, drive to the mechanic and have the battery changed.

2) your brakes not working properly - Brakes are a wear and tear item. If they are worn and need to be replaced then you replace them. Worn brakes still work properly. Excessively work brakes make noise and cause extra wear on other brake components but still work properly.

3) car overheating on the highway - Cars have improved since the 70's. When was the last time you saw an overheating car on the side of the road? If a car overheats it is usually do to improper maintenance.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Excessively work brakes make noise and cause extra wear on other brake components but still work properly.

not true. stopping distance goes way up.

[moko]

Most of this is irrational fear of the "what if" which is causing you to make flawed decisions. Most of these reasons listed are non-issues for the most part:

1) deal with your car not starting - 99% of the time it is due to a bad battery. Batteries last 5-7 years and usually die in the winter. If you want to avoid this issue change your battery after 5 years or wait until it dies, get a boost, drive to the mechanic and have the battery changed.

2) your brakes not working properly - Brakes are a wear and tear item. If they are worn and need to be replaced then you replace them. Worn brakes still work properly. Excessively work brakes make noise and cause extra wear on other brake components but still work properly.

3) car overheating on the highway - Cars have improved since the 70's. When was the last time you saw an overheating car on the side of the road? If a car overheats it is usually do to improper maintenance.

+100

[alpicone]

not true. stopping distance goes way up.

Stopping distances go way up because there is less material on the pads and rotors to dissipate the heat so the brakes are less effective after repeated uses as compared to brand new brakes. But the brakes will still work properly.

[Baruch]

Most of this is irrational fear of the "what if" which is causing you to make flawed decisions. Most of these reasons listed are non-issues for the most part:

1) deal with your car not starting - 99% of the time it is due to a bad battery. Batteries last 5-7 years and usually die in the winter. If you want to avoid this issue change your battery after 5 years or wait until it dies, get a boost, drive to the mechanic and have the battery changed.

2) your brakes not working properly - Brakes are a wear and tear item. If they are worn and need to be replaced then you replace them. Worn brakes still work properly. Excessively work brakes make noise and cause extra wear on other brake components but still work properly.

3) car overheating on the highway - Cars have improved since the 70's. When was the last time you saw an overheating car on the side of the road? If a car overheats it is usually do to improper maintenance.

LOVE! Great response.

[moko]

Stopping distances go way up because there is less material on the pads and rotors to dissipate the heat so the brakes are less effective after repeated uses as compared to brand new brakes. But the brakes will still work properly.

and if we're going to consider worn brakes as a faulty car may as well throw in clogged air filters

[cozmohoot]

Most of this is irrational fear of the "what if" which is causing you to make flawed decisions. Most of these reasons listed are non-issues for the most part:

1) deal with your car not starting - 99% of the time it is due to a bad battery. Batteries last 5-7 years and usually die in the winter. If you want to avoid this issue change your battery after 5 years or wait until it dies, get a boost, drive to the mechanic and have the battery changed.

2) your brakes not working properly - Brakes are a wear and tear item. If they are worn and need to be replaced then you replace them. Worn brakes still work properly. Excessively work brakes make noise and cause extra wear on other brake components but still work properly.

3) car overheating on the highway - Cars have improved since the 70's. When was the last time you saw an overheating car on the side of the road? If a car overheats it is usually do to improper maintenance.

+1

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Stopping distances go way up because there is less material on the pads and rotors to dissipate the heat so the brakes are less effective after repeated uses as compared to brand new brakes. But the brakes will still work properly.

wrong again. even on worn brakes the surface contact (pads to rotor) is basically the same. 

[alpicone]

wrong again. even on worn brakes the surface contact (pads to rotor) is basically the same. 

So you agree or disagree? I spoke to the dissipation of the heat being a factor in less material on the pads and rotors and your response addresses the generation of the heat.

And you also mentioned that the contact area of new and worn brakes are the same  which was my point.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

So you agree or disagree? I spoke to the dissipation of the heat being a factor in less material on the pads and rotors and your response addresses the generation of the heat.

And you also mentioned that the contact area of new and worn brakes are the same  which was my point.

agree somewhat. heat dissipation has more to do with the rotor. when you made the comment "Excessively work brakes" I took that to mean beyond normal wear. i looked at as the pad worn away or groves forming in the rotor (happens a lot in after market rotors). this has a major effect on stopping distance as compared to heat build up.

[alpicone]

agree somewhat. heat dissipation has more to do with the rotor. when you made the comment "Excessively work brakes" I took that to mean beyond normal wear. i looked at as the pad worn away or groves forming in the rotor (happens a lot in after market rotors). this has a major effect on stopping distance as compared to heat build up.

Agreed.

[zale]

Most of this is irrational fear of the "what if" which is causing you to make flawed decisions. Most of these reasons listed are non-issues for the most part:

1) deal with your car not starting - 99% of the time it is due to a bad battery. Batteries last 5-7 years and usually die in the winter. If you want to avoid this issue change your battery after 5 years or wait until it dies, get a boost, drive to the mechanic and have the battery changed.

2) your brakes not working properly - Brakes are a wear and tear item. If they are worn and need to be replaced then you replace them. Worn brakes still work properly. Excessively work brakes make noise and cause extra wear on other brake components but still work properly.

3) car overheating on the highway - Cars have improved since the 70's. When was the last time you saw an overheating car on the side of the road? If a car overheats it is usually do to improper maintenance.

This is a nice feel-good response for people who have decided to buy used. Definitely "words of encouragement".

However, my statements were not based on "irrational fears", but rather real-world experience from my own used cars as well as used cars purchased by family and friends.

1. The battery may be the cause of cars not starting, but it isn't always the culprit. For example, a bad alternator can cause the battery to drain out. Bad connection cables can cause it to disconnect. So no, changing the battery is not always the solution.

2. Bad brakes aren't always a danger, but they are certainly a nuisance and can make driving miserable. I had TWO used cars that would stutter when braking at anything over 30mph, and it was miserable. Changing the brake pads didn't do squat.

3. Cars don't overheat the way they used to from "overuse", but they can overheat from other problems, such as the fan braking down or shorting.

Either way, these are just a drop in the ocean in comparison to the hundreds of possible problems with a used vehicle.

Back to my point, if you can handle a problem with your car every now and then, you will save a lot of money buying used. If you can't or simply don't want to deal with problems, leasing or buying new is the way to go.

As stated previously, you could get lucky and have a used car that gives you no problems for years, but don't count on it.

[ckmk47]

I used to agree with you whole heartedly.  I really didn't get the point of leasing- paying and paying with nothing to show for it.

I don't remember the actual figures, or I'd post them. 
I bought a car- a Chevy Impala.  It was 3 years old.  It was pretty reliable; I wasn't afraid to drive it far from home.  Then one day, we rode over a pothole.  The axle fell off, the airbags deployed, and the car was a gonner.  I'd had the car for 5 years.
purchase price + repairs / 5 years = about $4000/ year.
4K/ 12 mos = $333 / mon.
So my new minivan I planned to lease.

(I ended up buying with the intention of selling out in 3 or so years.  Because I use relatively few miles, so why give the lease company these miles for free.  In Nov it's 3 years, talk to me then.  )

[Ergel]

It was a Chevy Impala, of course it fell apart. Talk to me when you buy a Camry/Sonata/Altima/Accord

[ckmk47]

It was a Chevy Impala, of course it fell apart. Talk to me when you buy a Camry/Sonata/Altima/Accord

This time I have a Toyota Sienna.  How many good years can I expect?

[Ergel]

10 at least. Unless you believe rots upthread. Then you should get rid of it ASAP

[zale]

I used to agree with you whole heartedly.  I really didn't get the point of leasing- paying and paying with nothing to show for it.

I don't remember the actual figures, or I'd post them. 
I bought a car- a Chevy Impala.  It was 3 years old.  It was pretty reliable; I wasn't afraid to drive it far from home.  Then one day, we rode over a pothole.  The axle fell off, the airbags deployed, and the car was a gonner.  I'd had the car for 5 years.
purchase price + repairs / 5 years = about $4000/ year.
4K/ 12 mos = $333 / mon.
So my new minivan I planned to lease.

(I ended up buying with the intention of selling out in 3 or so years.  Because I use relatively few miles, so why give the lease company these miles for free.  In Nov it's 3 years, talk to me then.  )

AFAIK, if you buy new with the intention of selling every 3-4 years, it's actually cheaper to lease.

Let's run some numbers here:

Assuming you got the LE, you paid around $33k after taxes. In three years, assuming you used 15k miles and kept the car in good mechanical condition, your trade-in value will be approximately $18,500. That's approximately $5,000/yr.

Currently, the 2014 Sienna LE can be leased for $315/month, which is $3780/yr. Add approx $800 bank fee + $400 disposition fee (assuming you are not leasing another Toyota), it would be $3813 per year.

Long story short, if you are not keeping the vehicle for at least five years, you are better off leasing.

[zale]

10 at least. Unless you believe rots upthread. Then you should get rid of it ASAP

Ten good years? 

Maybe if you drive it only in a parking lot.

[MarkS]

AFAIK, if you buy new with the intention of selling every 3-4 years, it's actually cheaper to lease.

Let's run some numbers here:

Assuming you got the LE, you paid around $33k after taxes. In three years, assuming you used 15k miles and kept the car in good mechanical condition, your trade-in value will be approximately $18,500. That's approximately $5,000/yr.

Currently, the 2014 Sienna LE can be leased for $315/month, which is $3780/yr. Add approx $800 bank fee + $400 disposition fee (assuming you are not leasing another Toyota), it would be $3813 per year.

Long story short, if you are not keeping the vehicle for at least five years, you are better off leasing.

The argument against leasing isn't necessarily to buy new. You can buy a 1-2 year old car for much better value than brand new.
I bought a car that was 6 months old with 6K miles for $6,500 off the price of a new car.

[Ergel]

Ten good years? 

Maybe if you drive it only in a parking lot.

Whatever you say. If you mean it will require maintenance over the course of ten years, then you are right. But it should drive well and be reasonably priced to maintain for at least ten years.