Author Topic: Flying ICN-JFK on a Friday morning (Read 5469 times)

Moishebatchy · « **on:** November 18, 2013, 09:15:21 AM »

I noticed that the Asiana ICN-JFK flight leaves Korea at 10:00 AM, flies for 14 hours, and lands in NYC at 11:00 AM on the same day. I confess I am not familiar with the ins and outs of the international dateline, flying more or less over the top of the globe, etc. so I figured I'd ask here...

1) If I take that flight on a Friday morning, am I violating Shabbos somehow? I know it's Friday at my origin and destination, but will I somehow be passing over somewhere where it's Shabbos already?
2) Even if it's halachically okay, is that a stupid thing to do? I.e. Am I taking a big risk that if I CH"V miss my flight, then ICN is a bad place to be for Shabbos or something?

Marco Polo · « **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2013, 09:17:58 AM »

Bookmarking so i see the answer. Thinking of a similar flight.

AJK · « **Reply #2 on:** November 18, 2013, 09:23:24 AM »

You guys better think fast.

damaxer91 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 18, 2013, 09:26:02 AM »

Search and you'll find a similar thread

I was told no (because it becomes Shabbos somewhere over Siberia for an hour)

But the Summer may be different

damaxer91 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 18, 2013, 09:27:12 AM »

http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=23254.msg365184#msg365184

Dan · « **Reply #5 on:** November 18, 2013, 11:23:34 AM »

April 4th: No-go:
http://chaitables.com/cgi-bin/chai.exe/?from=107&frommonth=4&fromday=4&fromyear=2014&fromhour=10&fromminute=0&fromdst=&to=2&tomonth=4&today=4&toyear=2014&tohour=11&tominute=0&todst=on&from_timezone=-200&24hr=

July 11 OTOH may be OK, AYLOR:
http://chaitables.com/cgi-bin/chai.exe/?from=107&frommonth=7&fromday=11&fromyear=2014&fromhour=10&fromminute=0&fromdst=&to=2&tomonth=7&today=11&toyear=2014&tohour=11&tominute=0&todst=on&from_timezone=-200&24hr=

Note that if the airline takes a non-ideal route there can still be issues.

Moishebatchy · « **Reply #6 on:** November 18, 2013, 11:57:07 AM »

Quote from: Dan on November 18, 2013, 11:23:34 AM

April 4th: No-go:
http://chaitables.com/cgi-bin/chai.exe/?from=107&frommonth=4&fromday=4&fromyear=2014&fromhour=10&fromminute=0&fromdst=&to=2&tomonth=4&today=4&toyear=2014&tohour=11&tominute=0&todst=on&from_timezone=-200&24hr=

That's the one I had in mind.

My LOR gave me a name of a Rav to call who is an expert in these matters. I'm supposed to call him in 20 minutes.

Dan · « **Reply #7 on:** November 18, 2013, 12:03:06 PM »

Quote from: Moishebatchy on November 18, 2013, 11:57:07 AM

That's the one I had in mind.

My LOR gave me a name of a Rav to call who is an expert in these matters. I'm supposed to call him in 20 minutes.

I wouldn't even ask about that one, way too complicated.

AJK · « **Reply #8 on:** November 18, 2013, 12:04:36 PM »

"Complicated" is a relative term, especially when dealing with an expert in such matters.

damaxer91 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 18, 2013, 12:07:56 PM »

Seems like it works during the summer

Moishebatchy · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2013, 01:02:23 PM »

Spoke to the posek. He says I have to find out what the local time will be at the moment the plane crosses the "Mid-Pacific Dateline" (I think that's the one he meant); if it will be before Shabbos, then I'm fine. How do I find that out?

Dan · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2013, 01:05:15 PM »

Of course it won't be. If you did then you wouldn't hit shabbos at all.

Chai tables shows the exact route and problem you'll have. It's a no-go in April, trust me.

Moishebatchy · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2013, 01:53:17 PM »

Quote from: Dan on November 18, 2013, 01:05:15 PM

It's a no-go in April, trust me.

I do.

AJK · « **Reply #13 on:** November 18, 2013, 02:09:15 PM »

Quote from: Dan on November 18, 2013, 01:05:15 PM

Of course it won't be. If you did then you wouldn't hit shabbos at all.

Chai tables shows the exact route and problem you'll have. It's a no-go in April, trust me.

So that I can figure this out in the future, do you mind explaining the process using Chai tables?

Dan · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2013, 02:20:34 PM »

Quote from: AJK on November 18, 2013, 02:09:15 PM

So that I can figure this out in the future, do you mind explaining the process using Chai tables?

Here's the link that they make hard to find:
http://chaitables.com/chai_air_eng.php?look=20131118

MosheP · « **Reply #15 on:** December 22, 2013, 09:01:16 PM »

I'm trying to get the zman for netz onboard AF 7 tonight. I'm having trouble on ipad. Can someone please post or PM me the zman. Rim taking off in 20 min.

We are scheduled to depart 9:15 and land at 8:58.

Thanks

mochada · « **Reply #16 on:** December 22, 2013, 09:04:14 PM »

Try chaitables.com not sure it has Korea but may.

MeirS · « **Reply #17 on:** December 23, 2013, 12:45:48 PM »

I flew this flight in the summer (end of June) on Sunday morning. On Sunday afternoon we crossed the dateline and it became Shabbos afternoon, then we landed the following (Sunday) morning.

I spoke to a Rov in Australia who deals with this often, (all flights leaving AU on Motzei Shabbos heading east). He told me that some people say that its better not to do it but most Rabbonim in AU say it's fine, although if possible you should not do any Melochos M'Deoiraisa From when you cross the date line until it gets dark. (Basically no writing, he said about turning on a light (locking the bathroom door) would definitely be allowed since some Poskim say it's M'Derabonon and even according to others, considering that it's only a sofek, a possible Chilul Hashem can be much worse).

Sunday may be different than Friday. In either case you should ask your LOCPR (Local Orthodox Competent Practicing Rabbi).

MAJ · « **Reply #18 on:** December 23, 2013, 04:09:48 PM »

Quote from: Dan on November 18, 2013, 11:23:34 AM

April 4th: No-go:
http://chaitables.com/cgi-bin/chai.exe/?from=107&frommonth=4&fromday=4&fromyear=2014&fromhour=10&fromminute=0&fromdst=&to=2&tomonth=4&today=4&toyear=2014&tohour=11&tominute=0&todst=on&from_timezone=-200&24hr=

same problem for hkg-nyc 0935-1210 cx or nrt-jfk 1110-0955 jl?

MeirS · « **Reply #19 on:** April 22, 2015, 12:00:05 PM »

How can I find a map with the route of a certain flight in the past to see if I crossed the date line or just missed it?
(When flying NYC-Asia, you can fly near the north pole, either crossing the date like or flying just to the right of it)