Author Topic: UA 18 Cancellation Help  (Read 2430 times)

Offline kangarruu

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UA 18 Cancellation Help
« on: December 17, 2013, 10:12:55 AM »
My sister-in-law and her husband are having some travel difficulties, and I don't know enough about the system to help them.

They were supposed to fly MXP-EWR UA 18 today on the Wideroe price mistake. That flight has been cancelled, and United says they're going to put them on a flight tomorrow morning. They gave them meal vouchers, but they haven't found much kosher food.

What should they do? Is there a way for them to get routed on a different airline? I've heard that the EU has stronger protections for passengers, but I don't really know more than vague vaguenesses.

Thanks!

Here's what my sister-in-law has told me so far.

Quote
we are on flight UA 18 reason for canceling is technical difficulties ( the flight attended told me they found a leak in the engine about an hour before take off and they couldn't locate the leak) and the pilots where legally not allowed to take off after 420 our time and they couldn't fix it before .so they canceled and there is another plane arriving tom that we are taking. Flight was delayed total of 24 hours next flight is tom at 1010
They gave us food vouchers earlier for the airport but couldn't really get much as all non kosher
We boarded the plane for about 2.5 hours before they took us off and had us wait in the terminal/ gate

EDIT: With respect to hotels:
Quote
We don't know yet [which hotel] and yes they are paying and giving us transportation to and from
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 10:18:13 AM by kangarruu »

Online Ergel

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2013, 10:21:18 AM »
Have them get to an agent and ask/demand to be flown with a different airline. Or you can try and call. They should accommodate you
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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2013, 10:22:02 AM »
On a brighter note, they should get serious compensation for this-EU rules. Should be like 600 Euro per person or something like that
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Offline kangarruu

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2013, 10:34:20 AM »
On a brighter note, they should get serious compensation for this-EU rules. Should be like 600 Euro per person or something like that

Thanks! I sent them a few routings that I think might work (though they all involve connections and arriving noonish tomorrow) and I'm waiting to hear back.

How should they go about getting compensation? Is there some documentation they should be keeping?

Thanks so much!

Offline myb821

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2013, 10:37:29 AM »
Look up eu delay compensation they should each get 600 eurp unless it's due to weather

Offline Jkhein

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2013, 12:23:35 PM »
Look up eu delay compensation they should each get 600 eurp unless it's due to weather
technical problems can also be exempt

Offline myb821

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2013, 12:25:31 PM »
technical problems can also be exempt
I dont believe you are correct. A tech problem is the airlines fault.

Offline Jkhein

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2013, 12:55:04 PM »
I dont believe you are correct. A tech problem is the airlines fault.
not if they do all necessary precautions

Offline chuchem

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2013, 12:57:19 PM »
I got for tech Problems already. As Court cases decided, that this is not unforseen circumstances.

Offline myb821

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2013, 12:58:51 PM »
I got for tech Problems already. As Court cases decided, that this is not unforseen circumstances.
+1

Offline SPLP

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2013, 01:46:23 PM »
I got for tech Problems already. As Court cases decided, that this is not unforseen circumstances.

Do u have the case or link-- I was denied by delta -- will now file with EU

"Your travel falls under the guidelines of European Union Regulation (EC) 261/2004 defining an airline's requirements when flight changes occur. Our records show Delta Flight 0133 on June from Athens to New York was delayed and canceled due to unexpected issues with the hydraulic system.

 

The delay/cancellation was beyond our control and constitutes “extraordinary circumstances”. We took all the reasonable measures we could under the circumstances and made every effort to offer you care and assistance. Regulation (EC) 261/2004 does not require compensation in this event and we must deny your request.

Offline chuchem

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2013, 05:55:28 PM »

Offline chuchem

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2013, 05:59:56 PM »
In the case Wallentin-Hermann v Alitalia—Linee Aeree Italiane SpA (Case C-549/07) of 22 December 2008,[2] the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg ruled on the interpretation of Article 5 of the regulation relating to cancellations, specifically paragraph 3 which states:
An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
The Court agreed with Wallentin-Hermann that any technical issues during aircraft maintenance don’t constitute "extraordinary circumstances" that would allow airlines to avoid paying passengers compensation for canceled flights. This case therefore closed the loophole which had allowed the airlines to abuse passengers by frivolous interpretation of "technical or extraordinary circumstances"; it further defined the phrase and limited its exploitation. The definition of "technical and/or extraordinary circumstances" by the Court now stands firm and solid: any carrier must prove that the alleged mechanical problem leading to the cancellation was "beyond its actual control", the court affirmed in a statement. In its judgment, the Fourth Chamber of the Court of Justice held:
Extraordinary circumstances” was not defined in the 2004 Regulation, but the phrase was to be interpreted narrowly since article 5(3) constituted a derogation from the principle, indicated in recitals 1 and 2 of the preamble, of protection of consumers, in as much as cancellation of flights caused serious inconvenience to passengers.
Furthermore, in the joined cases of Sturgeon v Condor, and Bock v Air France (C-402/07 and C-432/07),[3] the Fourth Chamber of the European Court of Justice held on 19 November 2009 that despite no express provision in the Regulation to compensate passengers for delay, passengers are now entitled to the compensation as set out in Article 8 for any delay in excess of three hours providing the air carrier cannot raise a defence of "extraordinary circumstances".
"Articles 5, 6 and 7 of Regulation EC 261/2004 must be interpreted as meaning that passengers whose flights are delayed may be treated, for the purposes of the application of the right to compensation, as passengers whose flights are cancelled and they may thus rely on the right to compensation laid down in Article 7 of the regulation where they suffer, on account of a flight delay, a loss of time equal to or in excess of three hours, that is, where they reach their final destination three hours or more after the arrival time originally scheduled by the air carrier."[4]
The fourth Chamber also ruled that under the definition of "extraordinary circumstances", technical faults within an aircraft should not be included and therefore an air carrier cannot rely on a technical fault within an aircraft as a defence from a valid claim under the Regulation.[5] Various passenger rights groups reported the case and encouraged passengers to bring claims against airlines in the event of a delay of over three hours.[6]
The Sturgeon ruling was reconfirmed in a ruling of the European Court of Justice on 23 October 2012 in Nelson v Deutsche Lufthansa AG and R (TUI Travel, British Airways, easyjet and IATA) v Civil Aviation Authority.[7]
In the case of Denise McDonagh v Ryanair Ltd (C-12/11), Third Chamber of European Court of Justice ruled that natural disasters such as the eruption of Icelandic volcano Eyjafjallajökull and the subsequent cloud of volcanic ash in 2010, which shut down most of European air traffic, do constitute "extraordinary circumstances", but not "super-extraordinary circumstances" as laid down in the regulation. If it would have constituted the latter, air carriers would have been released from both the obligation to pay compensation and to provide care. However in the court's ruling it only constituted "extraordinary circumstances", which means they still had an obligation of care towards passengers under Art. 5 and 8 of the regulation.[8]

Offline SPLP

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2013, 12:33:29 AM »
http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2012-10/cp120135en.pdf

Ruling that delay has to pay

Thank you
-- sent it to Delta's rejection E/M -- I will wait a while , if still negative , will file with EU

1)Have you or anyone received a change of rejection  form Delta after sending the court  ruling?
 
2) Anyone ever file with EU? how long until the replied ?

Offline kangarruu

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2013, 02:38:16 PM »
My sister-in-law and her husband are having some travel difficulties, and I don't know enough about the system to help them.

They were supposed to fly MXP-EWR UA 18 today on the Wideroe price mistake. That flight has been cancelled, and United says they're going to put them on a flight tomorrow morning. They gave them meal vouchers, but they haven't found much kosher food.

What should they do? Is there a way for them to get routed on a different airline? I've heard that the EU has stronger protections for passengers, but I don't really know more than vague vaguenesses.

Thanks!

Here's what my sister-in-law has told me so far.

EDIT: With respect to hotels:

UPDATE: They've landed at EWR safe and sound. They got this email from United after they landed:

Quote
Hey we just landed I received an email this is what united is offering
English | Español | Français | Deutsch | Português | 한국어 | 简体中文 | 日本語

Select from the following offers:

At United, we take pride in being a reliable part of your travel plans. We regret the inconvenience you experienced and therefore would like to offer you one of the following options to show our appreciation for your business.

You must select one offer before exiting this screen

17500 bonus Mileage Plus miles: Members can redeem miles toward award travel. Mileage Plus offers our members the most extensive selection of award travel destinations including over 800 cities in more than 139 countries. Terms and conditions


$350 E-Certificate: For travel within the 50 United States, Puerto Rico, or U.S. Virgin Islands during the travel period specified. Save off published United fares on a qualifying flight purchased at united.com. Discount applies only when ticket is purchased within the 50 United States, Puerto Rico, or U.S. Virgin Islands using a credit card with a valid U.S. billing address. Ticketing and travel by December 18, 2014. Terms and conditions


20% Off E-Certificate: For travel to and from any city served by United or United Express during the travel period specified. Save off published United Economy fares on a qualifying flight purchased at united.com or on a united.com worldwide site. Ticketing and travel by December 18, 2014. Terms and conditions



I accept the terms and conditions of this offer

I told them not to do anything. Is my feeling that they should ignore the email and just file for EC 261/2004 compensation with United's online CS correct?

Thanks again to everyone.

Online Ergel

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2013, 02:43:37 PM »
UPDATE: They've landed at EWR safe and sound. They got this email from United after they landed:

I told them not to do anything. Is my feeling that they should ignore the email and just file for EC 261/2004 compensation with United's online CS correct?

Thanks again to everyone.
I believe they should qualify for both, no?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline SPLP

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2013, 02:50:48 PM »
I believe they should qualify for both, no?

I WOULD HAVE TAKEN THE MILES ( I GOT 50K FROM DELTA  )  AND TRIED TO GET THE 600 EUROS ,


I  WILL FILE NOW FOR THE 600  MEANWHILE I GOT A"LITTLE" SOMETHING -- I HAD TO OVERNIGHT AN ARRIVED 24 HOURS LATE ALL FROM A "NONE STOP" FLIGHT

Offline kangarruu

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2013, 02:51:46 PM »
I believe they should qualify for both, no?

It would be great if they could get both. I'll see if I can find any T&Cs.

Offline kangarruu

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Re: UA 18 Cancellation Help
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2013, 04:19:33 PM »
I've looked and don't see anything indicating that the United offer has any terms. I also found a FlyerTalk thread with more people saying that it won't affect EC 261/2004 compensation.

Any recommendations as to which offer is the most worthwhile? The miles, yes?

Thanks again for the help!