Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)

[ChAiM'l]

I think that this thread defeats the whole purpose of the "Unity" song. Dan, please lock it.

[Mikeoracle]

I think that this thread defeats the whole purpose of the "Unity" song. Dan, please lock it.

+++1!!!!
The one "positive" thing that came out of this whole story is the tremendous achdus that evolved (sadly it took such a sad story to bring it about). For once can people just drop the negativity and hatred- what do you have to gain by picking a fight?? If you dont like it just stay quiet on the side! Is that so hard?
Of course you have the right to your opinions and to express it but cant you see how pointless it is and with such a sensitive subject why not just err on the safe side and not undermine the "Unity".

[AsherO]

I think that this thread defeats the whole purpose of the "Unity" song. Dan, please lock it.

+1.

[Avid Reader]

+2

+100

[regalhome]

+100

Wow you got it in the 1 second that it was up. I meant to Quote the orignal quote to please close the thread.

[whYME]

I think that this thread defeats the whole purpose of the "Unity" song. Dan, please lock it.

I was thinking the same thing and therefore this will be my last post on the matter.

1- there is alot more to his problems some self inflicted others not. its not the 1st time btw that he had problems. NO different then telling a cop that pulled you over for speeding you cant give me a tkt I wasnt the only car that was speeding, if you were speeding and was the only 1 pulled over thats that. If theres acop who has pulled you over before and either has warned you or knows you then it makes sense to me to avoid that cops area if you cant than Dont Speed anywhere in that town

2- gee there are lawyers and AGs that feel its not fair, big deal you can find that on any case heck any lawyer can argue the case for either vside and defend with their own reasonong why the person is Innocent or Guilty.It all depends on whos paying them. And yes anumber of those who hav ecome out for SR are on his legal team and being paid for being so

 3- Im not simply saying what others are saying and PETA is a PITA

 what you dont want to realize is that at times people while conducting business will tick off many aperson and once they slip up look out, just like when a politian slips up the vultures will circle till then find a time when its best to attack

when you play with matches eventually you will get burnt. most ponzi schemes dont start out that way, its just the person made a few bad deals and then thinks they can get back on track if they only had some more cash etcSR made certain decissions that he felt was best for his business and to make it worthwhile being in business, eventually it caught up to them

 Bank fraud usually isnt just a slap on the wrist, to me a long sentence means a min of 10 yrs. i happen to know where people knew they would be caught but still proceeded since they were willing to sit for what they thought would be 5 yrs and when they got out a few million was waiting for them. Thats why Madorf pleaded Guilty he figured the rest of his family would end up keeping the money they stashed and he felt at his age he already lived and did what he wanted to so he decided he will go to jail and hoped as a result the rest of his family will live very comfortably and so far his plan is working



 But you guys simply feel and want to play all the anti cards.

All this draying and you still haven't answered why he "deserves" a long sentence. (other than that what he hired illegals and minors)

Just because some of those lawyers etc. are being paid for it doesn't automatically invalidate their opinion. I haven't seen anyone (other than the judge and prosecutors) offer a competing opinion. -not to mention most of them are not on the payroll.
You claim I'm basing my argument on my emotions but what about you? It sure looks to me like your arguments are based on emotion, not the merits of the case...

If you really can't see a difference between a ponzi schemer or even somebody who set out to steal from a bank and somebody who inflated his receivables to increase his loan then there's nothing to talk about.


And of course you're entire argument all along is based on the premise that he had a fair trial, but I'm not going to get into that...


That's it. I'm out.

[steve2]

 its simple he did things with his bank that is against the law and its that which he was sentenced for. You feel since what he did didnt hurt anyone he should go free.

 as for the illegals and minors it makes little difference that everyone does it. If the IRS catches you that you cheated on your taxes your defense cant be well everyone does it so why cant I, nor that well unless you put everyone else behind bars for being a tax cheat its not fair that I get any time. Both of these seems to be your reason for SR to go free, while even you above said Fair would have been a 6 yr sentence of which he hasnt sat yet, but then youd probably say OK the rest of his sentence he should go free for being good or probably for simply being a Lubob

  theres no question SR and family made a number of enemies along the way when they got their chance to get them they did, thats the way it is in any business. I dont think the root cause was people being anti's but its a great trump card to play and yell about

 now its simply waiting to see if either of the USs top Courts will hear the case (dont know about the court of Appeals) but the Surpreme Court does not have to look at anything if by looking at it they feel nothing warrants a further look over, most cases are Not reviewed by the SC.

 i cant imagine what you guys will say if both Courts either dont look into it or do and decide to let it stand as is.

 nor do I want to get started how from day 1 they raised money and wanted the Olam to pay the legal  bill while the family stll owns houses worth millions of dollars

[kc1544]

After reading this thread im utterly disgusted. While there are some legit points from both sides, it is know that yidden are rachmonim and i think Steve2 should check his yichus....

[whYME]

I know I said I'm out so I'm not gonna keep arguing, but I do need to correct where you're misquoting me

even you above said Fair would have been a 6 yr sentence

no, what i said was that a proper sentence for what he was convicted should've been 6 years, not that a 6 year sentence is fair or that he deserves a 6 year sentence. (i.e we're (at least I am) talking about fair and deserving in a more absolute sense, that it should've never reached that point)

[whYME]

More corrections;

You feel since what he did didnt hurt anyone he should go free.

If the IRS catches you that you cheated on your taxes your defense cant be well everyone does it so why cant I, nor that well unless you put everyone else behind bars for being a tax cheat its not fair that I get any time. Both of these seems to be your reason for SR to go free

I never said (or implied) anything of the sort. Stop twisting my words to fit your agenda.

[steve2]

After reading this thread im utterly disgusted. While there are some legit points from both sides, it is know that yidden are rachmonim and i think Steve2 should check his yichus....

 so I guess you will say the same since I feel Madorf got a fair sentence or that Dweck should be put away and the key thrown away etc etc. It is very simple we arent living in a soceity as we did in Europe yrs ago where if a person was a Jew that meant they were only allowed to do certain jobs, hck it was like that here in the US not long ago either. So once again if a person deides to do a Crime they should be prepared to do the Time. SR ddint hav eto do what he did he chose to for whatever reason , maybe in order to make more money or to keep his business afloat, it doesnt matter. He could have paid min wages and not have had minors or illegals working for him, sure it probably would hav emeant less profits or mkt share or having to charge alot more for his products. But they chose what they did. And sorry an answer cant be well it benefited the whole community or ours.

[Mikeoracle]

so I guess you will say teh same since I feel Madorf got a fair sentence or that Dweck should be put away and the key thrown away etc etc

If you really dont think there is a difference between SR and Madoff/Dweck then I feel bad for you.

[steve2]

I know I said I'm out so I'm not gonna keep arguing, but I do need to correct where you're misquoting meno, what i said was that a proper sentence for what he was convicted should've been 6 years, not that a 6 year sentence is fair or that he deserves a 6 year sentence. (i.e we're (at least I am) talking about fair and deserving in a more absolute sense, that it should've never reached that point)

 so you think he shouldnt get any time Right why? and why havent you posted a single case as I asked where the party pleaded Not Guilty was found Guilty and only got a slap on the wrists

again if SR wasnt Chabad none of you would have cared 1 bit or thought about them

[steve2]

If you really dont think there is a difference between SR and Madoff/Dweck then I feel bad for you.

 actually I give SR Tremendous Credit, he has kept his mouth shut about others who have done tings and could have given them up hoping for a lesser sentence as Dweck and others have

 but the bottom line is the same it was all done for profits

[steve2]

More corrections;I never said (or implied) anything of the sort. Stop twisting my words to fit your agenda.

 sure you did you have posted others who did what he did werent busted or gone after and those that were didnt get what he did

 well Im off to the airport for my HNL-JFK routing so thats why I wont be commenting could be I will have some dowm time @ SFO

[Mikeoracle]

again if SR wasnt Chabad none of you would have cared 1 bit or thought about them

And you say that based on what??
I have no affiliation with Chabad and neither did a large part of the 1000's that came together at various events to show their support and outrage at what was done to him.
The fact that Satmar and all the others who never got along that well with Chabad showed their support publicly again and again is proof that this has nothing to do with Chabad and is all about Kol Yisroel areivim zeh lazeh!
You are just making up stuff to back up your opinion and using analogies that are totally nonsense.

[Chaikel]

If you really dont think there is a difference between SR and Madoff/Dweck then I feel bad for you.

Aside from the specific crime committed, and the pleas, what exactly is the difference?

[SuperFlyer]

Chaikel? Is that steve2 posting under your name?

According to steve2's system, everyone on this forum who applied for a cc and increased on the application form his annual income by $1000*, and gets caught, should serve time, as its a crime. (You sign that all you filled in and checked/crossed is correct).
Like wise, crossing a street when its red is a crime.
Ponzyschemes (done lekatchila) to rob people of their money, or e.g. someone telling the bank that he earns more to get a bigger loan, and with the full intention to pay back*, these are all crimes.

However, they vary in my opinion between a $100 fine to 100 years in prison.

If you can't differentiate, then we have a problem.

(*) both cases with an asterisk are about the same: the cc application, I'm sure quite a few members played around with, and case number 2, trying to get a bigger loan SR did...

[chuchem]

I dont want to get involved again, as its easy to burn my fingers here. I do not agree to steve in all. But i must say it again, he did commit a crime. He forged documents. Now you might say, everybody does that, do get credit. Well, that does not make it right. I think a major fact that people overlook here, is, that he commited a crime. The sentencing and reason why he was picked on, was unfair and probably biased, but they had a valid reason to charge him. I didnt mention the minors, as its not clear if he knew about it or not. The reason, why all jews incl. Me line up for him, is that we feel his punishment was to harsh since he was a jew or since he was picked on because of shechita. If he would have had a one year sentence, people would have understood. People also understood, when the spinka rebbe was sent to jail. But if the spinka rebbe would have goten 30 years, jews would also scream, as we defend our brother when they are not treated right. Does he deserve to sit in jail? I dont know and dont want to decide this, if most other guys get away with it he should as well. As long as his sentence is as it is, he was wronged and people will support him as clal yosroel. He did alot for shechita and kosher meat in america and we have to have hakoras hatoiv for that, even if he might have made mistakes on the way.

[Mikeoracle]

I dont want to get involved again, as its easy to burn my fingers here. I do not agree to steve in all. But i must say it again, he did commit a crime. He forged documents. Now you might say, everybody does that, do get credit. Well, that does not make it right. I think a major fact that people overlook here, is, that he commited a crime. The sentencing and reason why he was picked on, was unfair and probably biased, but they had a valid reason to charge him. I didnt mention the minors, as its not clear if he knew about it or not. The reason, why all jews incl. Me line up for him, is that we feel his punishment was to harsh since he was a jew or since he was picked on because of shechita. If he would have had a one year sentence, people would have understood. People also understood, when the spinka rebbe was sent to jail. But if the spinka rebbe would have goten 30 years, jews would also scream, as we defend our brother when they are not treated right. Does he deserve to sit in jail? I dont know and dont want to decide this, if most other guys get away with it he should as well. As long as his sentence is as it is, he was wronged and people will support him as clal yosroel. He did alot for shechita and kosher meat in america and we have to have hakoras hatoiv for that, even if he might have made mistakes on the way.

Well put.