Author Topic: Which would be cheaper?  (Read 5644 times)

Offline MenachemMendel

  • Dansdeals Bronze Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 42
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Which would be cheaper?
« on: October 19, 2010, 02:13:25 PM »
1) Leaving on a fire on the stove (about medium heat) for the whole Shabbos.
2) Leaving on an electric hot plate (110V-60Hz -400W), Shabbos "plateh" for the whole Shabbos.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 68893
  • Total likes: 17267
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2010, 02:17:40 PM »
Is your stove electric or gas?
Personally we get free gas and have a gas oven/stove so not much of a question for us :)
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline MisterHock

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2010
  • Posts: 523
  • Total likes: 27
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2010, 02:45:07 PM »
why dont you just put the hot plate on a timer?

Offline SuperFlyer

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 9403
  • Total likes: 438
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2010, 02:53:48 PM »
If you connect to your neighbors electricity, its the cheapest.

Gas also, but it might do BOOOOM.

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 31008
  • Total likes: 7974
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2010, 02:57:26 PM »
why dont you just put the hot plate on a timer?

If it's for Shabbos day meal during the winter, then the timer would only take off a few hours.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 68893
  • Total likes: 17267
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2010, 03:06:14 PM »
Bear in mind that although R' Moshe permitted timers on lights, using one for cooking/reheating is an entirely different shailah that isn't simple at all.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline steve2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 2077
  • Total likes: 8
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: outside some Club
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2010, 03:19:58 PM »
Bear in mind that although R' Moshe permitted timers on lights, using one for cooking/reheating is an entirely different shailah that isn't simple at all.

 I havent thought into it as of yet

but off the cuff, what should present a problem with say putting the food eve Shabbos onto the hot plate that has a timer attached to it and the Timer is set to shut off at say Noon and not go back on and was put on befoer Shabbos started

 usually a person will set a lamp to go off late Fri night and to go back on Shabbos late afternoon, with the hot plate usually theres no need or desire for it to go back on once its been turned off as no one will be cooking or heating anything to eat Shabbos afternoon, so it shouldnt be a problem at 1st glance using a timer to accomplish this

 now if aperson wants to use it to cok or reheat food and has it set to go on say at 8am and plans to put the food on it at 7:55 that seems to be very problematic

Offline txtmax4

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 6958
  • Total likes: 12
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2010, 04:46:40 PM »
C'mon guys... Judging from his username he is "probably" a Lubavitcher, which means that he might need to keep the cholent on till very close to the end of shabbos... if you know what I mean :)
Bear in mind that Lubavs eat much later than everyine else.

In response to the question: personally my gas bill is like a third of the electric (20% in the summer), so I would say go with gas, but I don't really understand voltages so I wouldn't say for sure.
If You See Something, Say Something!!

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 68893
  • Total likes: 17267
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2010, 05:17:09 PM »
C'mon guys... Judging from his username he is "probably" a Lubavitcher, which means that he might need to keep the cholent on till very close to the end of shabbos... if you know what I mean :)
Bear in mind that Lubavs eat much later than everyine else.
Speak for yourself!
I'm home eating shabbos lunch at 12:15-12:30.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Chaikel

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 6842
  • Total likes: 174
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 20
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: LH SEN, SPG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Rav Kav Platinum
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2010, 05:36:37 PM »
Bear in mind that although R' Moshe permitted timers on lights, using one for cooking/reheating is an entirely different shailah that isn't simple at all.
Cooking and reheating are 2 very different shailos. I'm not aware of anyone that assurs reheating. Cooking on shabbos is assur whether it's on a timer, you started before shabbos, or any shtick you can think of
Create professional looking itineraries.
Check out eliteitinerary.com

Offline MenachemMendel

  • Dansdeals Bronze Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 42
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2010, 06:57:07 PM »
I appreciatte everyone's pilpulim regarding the Halachic status of cooking and reheating etc. but, can anyone answer my question?
Thanks.

Offline MenachemMendel

  • Dansdeals Bronze Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 42
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2010, 06:57:50 PM »
Speak for yourself!
I'm home eating shabbos lunch at 12:15-12:30.
My cholent gets served around 4:00-4:30 pm... :D

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 68893
  • Total likes: 17267
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2010, 07:05:47 PM »
I appreciatte everyone's pilpulim regarding the Halachic status of cooking and reheating etc. but, can anyone answer my question?
Thanks.
How do you expect an answer if you never even answered what I asked you in reply #1?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 07:10:39 PM by Dan »
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 68893
  • Total likes: 17267
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2010, 07:07:53 PM »
Cooking and reheating are 2 very different shailos. I'm not aware of anyone that assurs reheating. Cooking on shabbos is assur whether it's on a timer, you started before shabbos, or any shtick you can think of
   1. It is prohibited to place food on Friday to cook on a hot plate that will be activated on Shabbos by a time-clock. This is the case even if the hot plate is covered by a blech.[8]

   2. Even if the food placed on the hot plate before Shabbos is fully cooked and is no longer subject to the rules of Bishul, e.g., a dry cooked food, it is preferable not to use a hot plate set on a time-clock to reheat the food on Shabbos. However there are variant opinions about this matter amongst the Poskim, and in case of need, a Rav should be consulted.[9]

   3. On Shabbos itself, most Poskim are of the opinion that it would be prohibited to place a food, even if fully cooked (and in which case no Bishul applies), on a hot plate that is not presently activated but would be turned on later by a time-clock.[10]

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/the-laws-of-cooking-on-shabbos/10.htm#n7
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Chaikel

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 6842
  • Total likes: 174
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 20
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: LH SEN, SPG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Rav Kav Platinum
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2010, 08:28:18 PM »
   1. It is prohibited to place food on Friday to cook on a hot plate that will be activated on Shabbos by a time-clock. This is the case even if the hot plate is covered by a blech.[8]

   2. Even if the food placed on the hot plate before Shabbos is fully cooked and is no longer subject to the rules of Bishul, e.g., a dry cooked food, it is preferable not to use a hot plate set on a time-clock to reheat the food on Shabbos. However there are variant opinions about this matter amongst the Poskim, and in case of need, a Rav should be consulted.[9]

   3. On Shabbos itself, most Poskim are of the opinion that it would be prohibited to place a food, even if fully cooked (and in which case no Bishul applies), on a hot plate that is not presently activated but would be turned on later by a time-clock.[10]

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/the-laws-of-cooking-on-shabbos/10.htm#n7
I will research, but I'm pretty sure that non-chabadniks are maikel on 2.
Create professional looking itineraries.
Check out eliteitinerary.com

Offline MenachemMendel

  • Dansdeals Bronze Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 42
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2010, 09:38:29 PM »
How do you expect an answer if you never even answered what I asked you in reply #1?
You're right, sorry.
I have a gas stove.
Thanks.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 68893
  • Total likes: 17267
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2010, 10:05:49 PM »
You're right, sorry.
I have a gas stove.
Thanks.
AFAIK, gas is much cheaper than electricity.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Armadillo

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 714
  • Total likes: 1
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2010, 07:07:49 AM »
Having gone through Hilchos Bishul, we came out with: the Chazon Ish is mashma that as long as it's grufa u'ktuma (blech/heat controls covered) it's not a problem to have it go on on Shabbos while the cold food is on it. Rav Moshe Feinstein and the Minchas Yitzchok pasken not to do it. The Minchas Yitzchok says b'shaas hadchak (gadol?) you can. My personal impression was that this all applies when you put the food on and later on it will turn on. If the timer turns it on and then you put the food down, it may be different. AYLOR

Offline Chaikel

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 6842
  • Total likes: 174
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 20
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: LH SEN, SPG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Rav Kav Platinum
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2010, 08:16:20 AM »
Although I've heard a bit to much of "What R' Moshe meant", and haven't seen the tshuva inside, I believe it is said that R' Moshe assured because it wasn't Nofutz, but bizman haaze it is
Create professional looking itineraries.
Check out eliteitinerary.com

Offline A3

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 3476
  • Total likes: 98
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Which would be cheaper?
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2010, 09:23:10 AM »
Shouldn't this have the same status as a coffee maker on a timer, whom rav Schwartz from the crc of Chicago pasjens like the tzitz eliezer (2:6) that is forbidden?