How Late is too Late?

[damaxer91]

I have a Motzei Shabbos flight on Turkish Airlines from TLV at 19:35 in Feb. and Shkiya is at 17:22 in Yerushalayim. According to a great Yerushalmi Posek, I can leave 25 Minutes after Shkiya. Anyone think that making it will be a problem?

[AsherO]

I have a Motzei Shabbos flight on Turkish Airlines from TLV at 19:35 in Feb. and Shkiya is at 17:22 in Yerushalayim. According to a great Yerushalmi Posek, I can leave 25 Minutes after Shkiya. Anyone think that making it will be a problem?

I do.

Besides, doesn't sound like a lechatchila that all poskim would agree to.

[Deal Guy]

I have a Motzei Shabbos flight on Turkish Airlines from TLV at 19:35 in Feb. and Shkiya is at 17:22 in Yerushalayim. According to a great Yerushalmi Posek, I can leave 25 Minutes after Shkiya. Anyone think that making it will be a problem?

Are you asking after the fact?

[moish]

disclaimer: the psak he got would only apply to yerushalayim, definitely not n. america

[moish]

damaxer, why not stay in bnei beraq for shabbos?

[damaxer91]

damaxer, why not stay in bnei beraq for shabbos?

Bnei Brak? Are u crazy?

[damaxer91]

I do.

Besides, doesn't sound like a lechatchila that all poskim would agree to.

As Moish said, This is a Psak that only applies to the Holy City. There are even Yerushalmi Poskim who allow Melacha at 18 Minutes after Shkiya if you have a pressing need

[moish]

Bnei Brak? Are u crazy?

malon vishnitz is actually not that bad. honestly. food is good and rooms arent terrible. i think y.a. stayed there in the past. you could ask him about it

[SuperFlyer]

I stayed in malon viznits, and it was ok.

just don't stick your nose outside or you feel like in teheran.

I believe that if you have a cab waiting (or within 5 mins) you can do it.

Not so much something to do with kids, but if as crazy as me, its possible.

You WILL need a shower in istanbul.

[AsherO]

disclaimer: the psak he got would only apply to yerushalayim, definitely not n. america

Excuse my ignorance, but why is the holy city different (more lenient)?

[MisterHock]

Excuse my ignorance, but why is the holy city different (more lenient)?

Since in the Holy Land the amount of time from when the sun goes down (Shkia) until its Halachically night, is scientifically much quicker. once the sun goes down, after like 20 minutes or so its dark already versus in America where it takes almost an hour until its dark. Therefore most people in Israel hold anywhere from Apprx. 25 minutes and onwards

[Dan]

Since in the Holy Land the amount of time from when the sun goes down (Shkia) until its Halachically night, is scientifically much quicker. once the sun goes down, after like 20 minutes or so its dark already versus in America where it takes almost an hour until its dark. Therefore most people in Israel hold anywhere from Apprx. 25 minutes and onwards

What it's faster in J'lem than anywhere else in the world?  Including other cities in Israel?

Anyway I was curious so I checked.  For today in J'lem Shkia is at 4:47pm and Tzeis Hakochovim at 5:18pm, a 31 minute window.
Today in Beachwood, OH Shkia is at 6:17pm and Tzeis Hakochovim at 6:52pm, a 35 minute window.

For last Friday the window in Beachwood was 34 minute vs. 31 in J'lem.

So much for that theory, there's a whopping 3 or 4 minute difference.

[elikay]

Dan the point isn't what it says on the luach, rather how it looks in the sky. A much higher precentage of frum people will use 30 approx. in jlm than in say the tristate area.

[elikay]

And the reason also has to do with the fact that its the geonim opinion which was (possibly for that reason) accepted in Y-m

[Dan]

Dan the point isn't what it says on the luach, rather how it looks in the sky. A much higher precentage of frum people will use 30 approx. in jlm than in say the tristate area.

Shkia and Tzeis are number representing what it looks like in the sky.
Shkia is sundown, Tzeis is 3 stars.
I'm not sure how that could look different in the sky.

Now if this isn't scientific then fine.  I'm just saying don't say that bein hashmashos is scientifically half the time in J'lem as it is elsewhere b/c that's not true.

[elikay]

Shkia and Tzeis are number representing what it looks like in the sky.
Shkia is sundown, Tzeis is 3 stars.
I'm not sure how that could look different in the sky.

Its 3 average size stars, so you would have to be able to define that.

Now if this isn't scientific then fine.  I'm just saying don't say that bein hashmashos is scientifically half the time in J'lem as it is elsewhere b/c that's not true.

I had always heard that in Israel it gets dark much more quickly, but after researching a bit now I have seen that at least at this time of the year the difference between NYC and JLM is about 5 minutes! Here is a twilight calculator for those who care to check.  http://www.spectralcalc.com/solar_calculator/solar_position.php additional info on definitions here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight

[momo]

Well lets figure like this. leave jer at 550( assuming everything is packed and in the car on friday) u will not get to the airport b4 620 and thats if u drive real fast. i'm assuming ur flying either buis or 1st and assuming u do not have to park ur car ( if u take a taxi there is no guarantee that he will be sitting in front of ur door at 550 also u would have to load the car o motzei shab, and he is unlikely to make it to the airport in 30 minutes more like 40)so min short if u have someone who drives real fast in ur car drop u off and ur flying buis or 1st i think u CAN make it. Good luck!

[AsherO]

Shkia and Tzeis are number representing what it looks like in the sky.
Shkia is sundown, Tzeis is 3 stars.
I'm not sure how that could look different in the sky.

Now if this isn't scientific then fine.  I'm just saying don't say that bein hashmashos is scientifically half the time in J'lem as it is elsewhere b/c that's not true.

I'm with Dan on this one in the sense that I don't understand why Jerusalem is different. I'm not saying the OP is wrong, I'm just asking for someone to clarify.

[moish]

not sure where dan got his zmanim from but what i see is that on nov 7:
Jerusalem- shkia 4:49 tzais 5:22 = 33 minutes http://www.myzmanim.com/day.aspx?vars=27526341
Beachwood- shkia 6:15 tzais 6:58 = 43 minutes http://www.myzmanim.com/day.aspx?vars=68833971

it just gets darker faster in yerushalayim. come here and youll see it yourself

[AsherO]

not sure where dan got his zmanim from but what i see is that on nov 7:
Jerusalem- shkia 4:49 tzais 5:22 = 33 minutes http://www.myzmanim.com/day.aspx?vars=27526341
Beachwood- shkia 6:15 tzais 6:58 = 43 minutes http://www.myzmanim.com/day.aspx?vars=68833971

it just gets darker faster in yerushalayim. come here and youll see it yourself

Perhaps because Jerusalem is surrounded by mountains?

Either way I don't know if that matters halachically because I'd assume Shekiya depends on when the sun sets over the horizon (x degrees, depending on your altitude), regardless of the (natural) obstructions in the way (trees, mountains, buildings etc.).