Author Topic: Scam Alert Sungames  (Read 202199 times)

Online MarkS

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 3694
  • Total likes: 12
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #2205 on: October 11, 2017, 04:46:36 PM »
The SEC just revoked their SEC registration.

http://docdro.id/scUcc9L

Online henche

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 3252
  • Total likes: 175
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #2206 on: October 14, 2017, 03:21:11 PM »
Saw an ad in a shul in yerushalayim for the "gemach hamerkazi". Seemed to be some scheme that you pay in for 16 years, then they lend you a larger amount.  Not clear on the details. 

Seemed like not exactly a scam, but dependent on more ppl signing up,  so sort of like unlicensed insurance, which presumably was not underwritten.

Offline Boruch999

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 1578
  • Total likes: 57
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #2207 on: October 14, 2017, 04:06:01 PM »
Saw an ad in a shul in yerushalayim for the "gemach hamerkazi". Seemed to be some scheme that you pay in for 16 years, then they lend you a larger amount.  Not clear on the details. 

Seemed like not exactly a scam, but dependent on more ppl signing up,  so sort of like unlicensed insurance, which presumably was not underwritten.

You are correct.  It is not a scam.  It was created to solve a certain problem which it may, but certain rabbonim hold it is ribbis doraysa. It is also dependent on more people signing up.  It is not underwritten but the risk is relatively small.

The unlicensed, not underwritten insurance is another thing, called Areivim. It has similar noble intentions and similar problems, though no ribis issues I am aware of.

I do not participate in either.

Online henche

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 3252
  • Total likes: 175
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #2208 on: October 14, 2017, 04:43:09 PM »
You are correct.  It is not a scam.  It was created to solve a certain problem which it may, but certain rabbonim hold it is ribbis doraysa. It is also dependent on more people signing up.  It is not underwritten but the risk is relatively small.

The unlicensed, not underwritten insurance is another thing, called Areivim. It has similar noble intentions and similar problems, though no ribis issues I am aware of.

I do not participate in either.

How does it work?  I couldn't figure it out

Offline Boruch999

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 1578
  • Total likes: 57
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #2209 on: October 15, 2017, 01:14:42 AM »
How does it work?  I couldn't figure it out
you pay $10/month per ”unit” per child for 60 months. Each unit entitles that child upon his wedding to a loan of $10k plus a ”gift” of half of the contributions his parents made for him.  The number of units is capped at 4 per child. Sometimes there is a ”sale” and you can purchase up to 6 units if the child is under 10. Repayment of loan is over 100 months, 120 months under a different ”sale.”

That's it, more or less, I may have gotten some of the numbers wrong.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 01:24:42 AM by Boruch999 »

Online henche

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 3252
  • Total likes: 175
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #2210 on: October 15, 2017, 01:42:06 AM »
Got it. So you pay a fairly low interest rate upfront, which when accounting for time value of money, may not be a very low rate

Offline yesitsme

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 806
  • Total likes: 21
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
    • perpetual talk
Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #2211 on: October 15, 2017, 02:07:57 AM »
The unlicensed, not underwritten insurance is another thing, called Areivim. It has similar noble intentions and similar problems, though no ribis issues I am aware of.

I do not participate in either.
I consider Areivim as a tzedaka that I hope I'll never need to use them, unlike the gemach that you take it as an investment that you hope to get your money+ back.
be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others.

Offline Boruch999

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 1578
  • Total likes: 57
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #2212 on: October 15, 2017, 03:01:40 AM »
Got it. So you pay a fairly low interest rate upfront, which when accounting for time value of money, may not be a very low rate

Correct.

Offline Boruch999

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 1578
  • Total likes: 57
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #2213 on: October 15, 2017, 03:03:11 AM »
I consider Areivim as a tzedaka that I hope I'll never need to use them, unlike the gemach that you take it as an investment that you hope to get your money+ back.

100%.  A very worthwhile tzedaka.  I've considered signing up for that but previous commitments take up my maaser and more.

Offline hvaces42

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 2809
  • Total likes: 281
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 9
    • View Profile
Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #2214 on: October 15, 2017, 09:32:57 AM »
I consider Areivim as a tzedaka that I hope I'll never need to use them, unlike the gemach that you take it as an investment that you hope to get your money+ back.
Always thought it was a scam. When someone I know explained it to me and showed me that its not an investment but actually areivim...a commitment of Jews to help other Jews when faced with the worst, I was sold. Waiting for them to open the next batch of 14,000 to join. 

Offline Eliyohu

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2015
  • Posts: 527
  • Total likes: 13
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #2215 on: October 15, 2017, 10:36:58 AM »
Always thought it was a scam. When someone I know explained it to me and showed me that its not an investment but actually areivim...a commitment of Jews to help other Jews when faced with the worst, I was sold. Waiting for them to open the next batch of 14,000 to join.
From what I understand they don't yet have 14000 people, and recipients dont recieve The full $100k. Once they do, l reach that number, They'll continue to take people and the pay in will go down from $7 a yasom to less until they reach 28000 and possibly create a second group.
+1000 on that it's %100 tzedaka not insurance... (This t&c is really clear about this)

Online henche

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 3252
  • Total likes: 175
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #2216 on: October 15, 2017, 12:15:51 PM »
From what I understand they don't yet have 14000 people, and recipients dont recieve The full $100k. Once they do, l reach that number, They'll continue to take people and the pay in will go down from $7 a yasom to less until they reach 28000 and possibly create a second group.
+1000 on that it's %100 tzedaka not insurance... (This t&c is really clear about this)

They are not marketing it as tzedaka.

Offline Boruch999

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 1578
  • Total likes: 57
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #2217 on: October 15, 2017, 12:16:55 PM »
They are not marketing it as tzedaka.

Areivim or gemach hamerkazi?

Online henche

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 3252
  • Total likes: 175
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #2218 on: October 15, 2017, 12:20:41 PM »

Offline Boruch999

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 1578
  • Total likes: 57
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #2219 on: October 15, 2017, 12:32:47 PM »
Gmach hamerkazi is definitely not marketed as a tzekaka.

Areivim - it's in the name.  Other than that it's been a while since I've seen marketing for it.