Author Topic: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.  (Read 7651 times)

Offline Dan

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Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« on: December 01, 2010, 12:29:35 AM »
I'll punt on commenting on his latest music video over to the blog of an old yeshiva-mate of mine:

http://mordechai7215.blogspot.com/2010/11/matisyahu-missing-point-of-chanukah.html

Harsh words, but Matis does seem to have gone off the deep end...
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Offline Dan

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2010, 12:32:28 PM »
Here's just the song if you don't want to see the idiotic video:
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Offline elikay

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2010, 04:20:05 PM »
:'(

Offline jong

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2010, 11:28:51 AM »
&feature=player_embedded#!

Matisyahu Chanukah prayer

Offline Dan

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2010, 11:40:54 AM »
&feature=player_embedded#!

Matisyahu Chanukah prayer
Ha!
He said "shel chanukah" ;D
Definitely not a lubab any longer...good riddance!

Seriously which rabbi told him he could just make random brachos like that?  Back in the day he would say "ado-shem" I believe.

Shame I once looked up to this guy.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 11:54:47 AM by Dan »
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Offline Avid Reader

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2010, 06:53:50 PM »
Easy there..

Just because he's not Lubavitch anymore should not be a reason for bashing him. He has a right to chose his own path whether Breslov Karlin or Chabad. I believe he is still learning and evolving. The fact that he left Lubavitch does not bother me. I still say hello and smile to him when I see him. I remember him from Hadar Hatorah before he went famous. He's a nice person with a good heart, and made a big sacrifice to become Frum. If I'm not mistaken Uncle Moishe also started off in Lubavitch and then decided it's not for him and left. He still get's along with Lubavitch (and vice versa) and sings for them. To throw someone away because he left is not the way of Chabad's Ahavas Yisrael. He will always be grateful to Chabad for what they gave him. I believe a nice number of people have become closer to Yiddishkeit because they were inspired by him.

I agree that he went way off and it seems he may develop some kind of Carlbach'ian style of Yiddishkeit of his own which is quite concerning. I never looked up to him and don't think others should either. Unlike Carlbach, he does not claim to be a rabbi. While it should be made clear that was he's doing is wrong and it does not reprasent Torah true Judaism, we should be nice to him (Yemin Mikareves) and avoid pushing this Ba'al Teshuva any further away from Yiddishkeit.

Offline Dan

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2010, 07:52:42 PM »
Easy there..

Just because he's not Lubavitch anymore should not be a reason for bashing him. He has a right to chose his own path whether Breslov Karlin or Chabad. I believe he is still learning and evolving. The fact that he left Lubavitch does not bother me. I still say hello and smile to him when I see him. I remember him from Hadar Hatorah before he went famous. He's a nice person with a good heart, and made a big sacrifice to become Frum. If I'm not mistaken Uncle Moishe also started off in Lubavitch and then decided it's not for him and left. He still get's along with Lubavitch (and vice versa) and sings for them. To throw someone away because he left is not the way of Chabad's Ahavas Yisrael. He will always be grateful to Chabad for what they gave him. I believe a nice number of people have become closer to Yiddishkeit because they were inspired by him.

I agree that he went way off and it seems he may develop some kind of Carlbach'ian style of Yiddishkeit of his own which is quite concerning. I never looked up to him and don't think others should either. Unlike Carlbach, he does not claim to be a rabbi. While it should be made clear that was he's doing is wrong and it does not reprasent Torah true Judaism, we should be nice to him (Yemin Mikareves) and avoid pushing this Ba'al Teshuva any further away from Yiddishkeit.
I think you completely missed my point.

I hold no grudge against him for not being chabad anymore.

I think that making a music video dressed up as Mr. Claus with scantily clad women, making brachos in vain, and him crowd-surfing again are things that he wouldn't have done a few years ago and are signs of him straying from orthodox judaism.

I'm simply saying I'm happy he no longer considers himself to be lubativtcher chosid while doing all those things.
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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2010, 10:50:43 PM »
Agreed.

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2010, 01:31:32 AM »
Ha!
He said "shel chanukah" ;D
Definitely not a lubab any longer...good riddance!

Seriously which rabbi told him he could just make random brachos like that?  Back in the day he would say "ado-shem" I believe.

Shame I once looked up to this guy.
Sorry you once looked up to him,and now feel betrayed. I never did so, and am happy about it.

Offline Chaikel

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2010, 02:16:33 AM »
I think you completely missed my point.

I hold no grudge against him for not being chabad anymore.

I think that making a music video dressed up as Mr. Claus with scantily clad women, making brachos in vain, and him crowd-surfing again are things that he wouldn't have done a few years ago and are signs of him straying from orthodox judaism.

I'm simply saying I'm happy he no longer considers himself to be lubativtcher chosid while doing all those things.
We do have to realize that very few religious jews have the nesayon of being signed with a major recording studio. It's hard to but yourself in his shoes
Sorry you once looked up to him,and now feel betrayed. I never did so, and am happy about it.
You're happy when other Yidden blunder?
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Offline moish

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2010, 02:24:07 AM »
i think hes happy that he doesnt feel the sense of betrayel.
personally, i dont understand how anyone looked up to him as a person. what did he do to deserve it? after all, he is what he always was - an artist, nothing more, nothing less

Offline Dan

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2010, 02:24:57 AM »
We do have to realize that very few religious jews have the nesayon of being signed with a major recording studio. It's hard to but yourself in his shoes.
True, it's impossible to put myself in his shoes.
But there are no valid excuses for this video.
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Offline Bh101

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2010, 04:12:03 PM »
I think you completely missed my point.

I hold no grudge against him for not being chabad anymore.

I think that making a music video dressed up as Mr. Claus with scantily clad women, making brachos in vain, and him crowd-surfing again are things that he wouldn't have done a few years ago and are signs of him straying from orthodox judaism.

I'm simply saying I'm happy he no longer considers himself to be lubativtcher chosid while doing all those things.
yet while he might not consider himself to be a  lubativtcher chosid he does go around portraying himself as a jew and as such is causing the general jewish population (lubabavitch,chasidim,and what ever you want to cal the rest of us?) to look bad. as Dan said  "dressed up as Mr. Claus with scantily clad women" .....not good for any of us in general especially the children.

Offline Bh101

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2010, 04:16:39 PM »
We do have to realize that very few religious jews have the nesayon of being signed with a major recording studio. It's hard to but yourself in his shoesYou're happy when other Yidden blunder?
if your going to go with the whole jewish thing and say not many of us have had that specific NESAYON......then i'll tell you that hashem wouldnt give a jew a nesayon he cant overcome ......i dont think he's overcoming this one....so whether or not i'm in his shoes i know that matisyahu can do better than that ...and for this , i WILL judge him!

Offline Dan

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2010, 04:22:46 PM »
i dont understand how anyone looked up to him as a person. what did he do to deserve it? after all, he is what he always was - an artist, nothing more, nothing less
Here was someone who in his early concerts dressed in chassidisher levushim (even wearing a kapota on motzei shabbos concerts) who openly lectured about chassidus in middle of performances, who had lyrics composed based on chasidus, playing beautiful music that inspired millions.  All while remaining frum and being shomer negiah. 

If you can't see why that would be inspirational for many people then I don't know what to tell you...

What has happened since his announcement that he was no longer considering himself to be lubavitch in order to "express himself" more is just a shame.  Again, not because he's not lubavitch anymore, that's not what I care about.  But because he seems to be on a very slippery slide that has escalated with this new video.

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Offline Dan

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2010, 04:24:45 PM »
if your going to go with the whole jewish thing and say not many of us have had that specific NESAYON......then i'll tell you that hashem wouldnt give a jew a nesayon he cant overcome ......i dont think he's overcoming this one....so whether or not i'm in his shoes i know that matisyahu can do better than that ...and for this , i WILL judge him!
+1
He started off strong and I thought that he was doing a beautiful job with coping with her personal nisyonos...what's happened is a shame.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2010, 05:51:17 PM »
This conversation brings to mind the Talmud's statement:

Quote from: Talmud, Sukkah 52a
The greater the man, the greater his Evil Inclination.

Chassidus interprets this to mean that whoever faces a spiritual challenge/struggle, has the power to overcome it. So if someone has a great test, they also have great potential.
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Offline mancunian

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2010, 08:04:24 PM »
judging people wont get anyone anywhere.
what i remember of chassidus's interpretation is that what Asher said is with regards to oneself, while when looking upon others it must be with the right eye. Since when do we care about aveiros? When its someone elses?..... I was once talking with my boss and i reluctantly mentioned a personal hardship, and he responded with a sigh that everyone has his peckle. But again, thats with regards to ourselves, when looking at someone else they must be perfect and not deserving of their respective peckelach. Really, why does it bother you?

What matisyahu does is terrible, and he must be denounced and disowned by the greater jewish community, as he has nothing to contribute, and is addmittantly contributing to the world his own expressions of himself, not those of judaism. I would assume that as soon as we leave our neutral stance regarding him his popularity etc will cease. I can safely guess that only a small minority would deem his work positive in that respect.

We're scared that if he's unzere we can denounce him, but if not we must be mekarev him, although he claims to be unzere and allows us to accept him as long its independent of any denouncement of whatever demands it.

And thats what i recall of chassidus's interpretation of kiruv, the famous "bringing people to Torah Judaism, not bringing the torah to them" and allowing them justify their pritzus through a vale of chanuka.

I noticed briefly in the article on the blog that they compare him with carlebach. i would prefer to liken him to zalman shechter. No speakers or educators or rabbis are without bias, sechel inherently has netiyos, but to make those mutar, consiously, (and publicly)...

Carlebach regocnized that what tanya speaks about with regards to focusing on asei tov rather than sur mei'ra means that everyone is perfect, 100%, regardless of his aveiros but not in spite of them, not denying them. And even our own.

Now if someone comes and tries to exploit that, is the answer to do what a non-chassid (or whatever) might respond with? The problem with chabad is that (for whatever reasons) we (practically) arent able to do two things at once; שמאול דוחה וימין מקרבת. Chassidus interperats that the essence of a Jew is a נושא הפכים...
And maybe if we focused more on our own lack of excuses and justifications we would get further in that

Offline Bh101

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2010, 11:06:54 PM »
This conversation brings to mind the Talmud's statement:

Chassidus interprets this to mean that whoever faces a spiritual challenge/struggle, has the power to overcome it. So if someone has a great test, they also have great potential.

+1

Offline AsherO

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Re: Matisyahu's New Music Video: Missing the Point of Chanukah.
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2010, 11:57:50 PM »
judging people wont get anyone anywhere...

What matisyahu does is terrible...

Hypocritical?

what i remember of chassidus's interpretation is that what Asher said is with regards to oneself, while when looking upon others it must be with the right eye. Since when do we care about aveiros? When its someone elses?

It seems you totally missed my point. I'm not defending Matisyahu or what goes on in the videos, but I wasn't advocating any judgement at all.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 12:01:53 AM by AsherO »
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