Sold miles, broker never used them, what's their status?

[how]

I agree he can't take the miles but I don't agree that you sell the account. Sometimes you don't sell all the miles in your account even. And most brokers I know assume you could switch password after miles are used.

If you only sell half the miles then no you dont sell the account but it still not your miles anymore

[sky121]

If you only sell half the miles then no you dont sell the account but it still not your miles anymore

Correct.

[aygart]

The buyer has a responsibility to remove the miles in a reasonable amount of time. The buyer can lose unsold miles if the account is closed later. He also does not have to track which miles are whose forever. This is more like when a guy bought my car and left it in my garage.

[Mordyk]

You sold the account. Its not yours anymore.

Don't start making Yeshivisha cheshbonos, of when you could keep them.

For all you know this Non Jew that bought them off the broker re-sold them to a different Jew.

there should still be some degree of normalcy and yosher involved  and besides you only give him your password he should be able to access your account to retrieve his points

[Name Changed]

there should still be some degree of normalcy and yosher involved

normalcy and yosher is not to use something that was sold to someone else.

If you really want to be Yosher you tell the broker that the miles are expiring and he hasn't used them yet.

[Twin]

The buyer has a responsibility to remove the miles in a reasonable amount of time. The buyer can lose unsold miles if the account is closed later. He also does not have to track which miles are whose forever. This is more like when a guy bought my car and left it in my garage.

If you didn't make up with the buyer b4 selling them how can you say now that the buyer has to remove them in reasonable timeframe, that wasn't the deal.
Deal was $x for x-miles

[Q274]

I've taken back an account after it expired.

therefore what? and ive misses davening before

[Traveler718]

If you didn't make up with the buyer b4 selling them how can you say now that the buyer has to remove them in reasonable timeframe, that wasn't the deal.
Deal was $x for x-miles

The form the Jewish broker sent me to make the deal says that the miles would be used within 2 months, and not to change the password or login info before that time. I've now waited a year, which seems like a lot more than 2 months, and to me, should already be a fulfillment of the terms of the deal. Certainly waiting until they're about to expire should be sufficient, especially since the Jewish broker sold my miles and got their money, no?

[efflpetzel]

The form the Jewish broker sent me to make the deal says that the miles would be used within 2 months, and not to change the password or login info before that time. I've now waited a year, which seems like a lot more than 2 months, and to me, should already be a fulfillment of the terms of the deal. Certainly waiting until they're about to expire should be sufficient, especially since the Jewish broker sold my miles and got their money, no?

yup I'm with you, go for it

[Twin]

The form the Jewish broker sent me to make the deal says that the miles would be used within 2 months, and not to change the password or login info before that time. I've now waited a year, which seems like a lot more than 2 months, and to me, should already be a fulfillment of the terms of the deal. Certainly waiting until they're about to expire should be sufficient, especially since the Jewish broker sold my miles and got their money, no?

First time hearing that he made up that they will be used within 2 months, that fact changes evreything.
Eta:I'm not a rav, sounds like this should be asked to a rav.

[sky121]

therefore what? and ive misses davening before

Nothing. I was just giving a scenario where I personally believe it is ok to take "back" miles.
But thanks for letting me know about your davening experience.
It's nice we can share.

[sky121]

First time hearing that he made up that they will be used within 2 months, that fact changes evreything.

+1

[aygart]

If you didn't make up with the buyer b4 selling them how can you say now that the buyer has to remove them in reasonable timeframe, that wasn't the deal.
Deal was $x for x-miles

Some things are assumed. A sale doesn't mean he gets unlimited storage.

[Traveler718]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to withhold information, especially if it could be beneficial to me. When people posted that I'd waited long enough, and others answered that no time limit was stipulated in the original deal, I decided to check the email they sent me at the time.

It says that points will be used within approximately 1 month, and airline miles within approximately 2 months. It adds that because it can take time to use them, I shouldn't change the password without contacting them. Is this considered a "t'nai" in the sale? It sounds like you guys are saying it is, since you said that changes everything.

But clearly when I called the Jewish broker, they told me I should wait another year before using the miles, and even then, who knows what they'll say? Is it tough luck for them since the person they sold it to has taken far longer than the 2 months they promised me it would be used in? And some people are saying that a sale is a sale, and they'll never be mine no matter what. Does this "t'nai" change that?

[sky121]

Some things are assumed. A sale doesn't mean he gets unlimited storage.

It's this statement that is the issue. Because nothing is written down really but there are def things 'assumed' and many sellers and buyers will tell you that.
This is why there are certain questions when it comes to buying and selling can be tricky to answer.

[bubbles]

If it was a tnai, would that say that you can keep the miles, or that it's a mekach taos?

[Twin]

If it was a tnai, would that say that you can keep the miles, or that it's a mekach taos?

If it's a tnai and your not mekaim the tnai the mekach is a Taos, by kidushin we say that the money $ goes back

[sky121]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to withhold information, especially if it could be beneficial to me. When people posted that I'd waited long enough, and others answered that no time limit was stipulated in the original deal, I decided to check the email they sent me at the time.

It says that points will be used within approximately 1 month, and airline miles within approximately 2 months. It adds that because it can take time to use them, I shouldn't change the password without contacting them. Is this considered a "t'nai" in the sale? It sounds like you guys are saying it is, since you said that changes everything.

But clearly when I called the Jewish broker, they told me I should wait another year before using the miles, and even then, who knows what they'll say? Is it tough luck for them since the person they sold it to has taken far longer than the 2 months they promised me it would be used in? And some people are saying that a sale is a sale, and they'll never be mine no matter what. Does this "t'nai" change that?

I'd say it says within 2 months but it may take longer. The question is how much longer would be considered the norm? The problem is the buyer already sold the points. So he can't give you any answers either. I'd say asking you to wait a year after how long you already waited isn't a "normal" waiting period.
It seems to me that it may not be your concern that the buyer resold them.  That 2nd buyer would have the issue then with the seller he bought it from. And it would be his responsibility on them.

Obviously you don't want to start trouble for anyone but I don't think it's fair to ask you to wait a whole year now when that is beyond the time expected to have to wait according to his words and implications.

[churnbabychurn]

Just Ask your LOR!

[sky121]

Just Ask your LOR!

But then we'd miss out on this thought provoking conversation and the opportunity to use our minds a bit.