Author Topic: Private Pilot's License  (Read 12813 times)

Offline VacationLover

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2014, 08:10:11 PM »
Huh? I would assume it costs much more... Just renting out the aircraft and paying fuel every time you actually take a lesson in the sky would cost that much...
Don't you know that fuel prices dropped lately? Just kidding!!

A majority time of the courses are not in the air.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2014, 08:11:01 PM »
Nope..

You need around 40 hours, 20 with a instructor. The place I know is $80 a hour for the plane and $50 for a instructor per hour.

Plane - $90/hr x 40 hours = $3,600.
Instructor - $50/hr x 20 hours = $1,000.

Plus a little more for books, test, etc...

For all in could be less than $5,000. But you might want to put in extra hours, extra instructor time, etc..
Yeah he said the 6K was minimum but most people need more hours.
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Offline chucksterace

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2014, 08:12:32 PM »
Yeah he said the 6K was minimum but most people need more hours.

Also depends where you fly, these prices are from a place about an hr out of Chicago in the middle of nowhere.. if you go to Palwaukee or someplace closer you can easily pay around $1,000-$2,000 more.
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2014, 08:17:18 PM »
Yeah this guy is out of KFRG
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Offline shtank

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2014, 08:23:48 PM »
I have one. Flew some friends to Pittsburgh for a bris (2.75 hours each way), proposed to my wife on the plane, went with my wife for thanksgiving weekend to Newport, RI, and flew into JFK not to mention the umpteen trips up and down the Hudson River I've done.
You can fly cross-country, but in the basic Pipers and Cessnas, total flight time would be about 40 hrs or more (RT). The most these planes can fly is about 5 hours depending on how much you load up on fuel and a myriad of other factors. So, you're talking minimum 8 stops along the way. It would be a great "road trip" type deal. Other factors to consider include weather and cost. Assuming you have luggage and full fuel, you really can only take 2 people at a time and that would set you back about 4 grand just in flying costs even if you get what I consider to be an amazing rate of about $100/hour. So this would not be to try and save money. Flying is an expensive hobby but not too expensive if done properly. All of the metrics I have mentioned change considerably depending on what type of plane you fly, whether you own, rent or join a flying club (more on that later), how often you fly and what types of licenses you get.
If you are looking to get your private license which entitles you to fly a single engine piston aircraft during the day and at night in relatively good visibility and not for-hire, then my recommendation for 99% of people is to join a flying club. Basically, a club is like a timeshare. The club may have 1 or more planes for use of the membership based on a (mostly) first-come first-serve scheduling system. Most clubs allow you to take the plane for up to a few days with a maximum cap of total "vacation days" per year. Basically, as long as you're a mentsch about it, they will be very accommodating. Clubs usually charge an entrance fee of about $400-$600 which is non-refundable. They also require a deposit of anywhere from $500-$5000 which is refundable upon your resignation from the club. There is usually a monthly maintenance fee ranging from $50-$150 a month. This does not include any flying time. Rates on flying are either "dry", which means that you are only paying for the plane and you have to pay for fuel or "wet" which means that the rate includes fuel (fuel is anywhere from $4.50/gal - $8 or $9/gal and these planes average between 8 and 10 gal/hr at cruise). One of the great advantages of joining a club is that they charge based on Tach time (which is determined by a meter hooked up to the tachometer and at cruise will usually match actual time flown hour for hour) as opposed to Hobbs time which is completely time based - if you turn on the engine, and an hour later you turn it off, you will pay for an hour even if you just idled on the tarmac (or sat in a long taxi line at JFK) the entire time.
A few other pieces of advice: Make sure you have all the money you are going to need to complete training before your first lesson. For me, start to finish I spent $7500 but I was extremely lucky since I b"H got an amazing instructor and was able to do most of my training in one summer (30 hours worth) upstate. A more realistic estimate is at least $10k. Also, make sure you have lots of time to do the training. Try for at least once a week for a couple of hours. If you only plan on doing an hour a month, then the whole thing will take you longer and cost more money since you will have to re-learn almost everything each time you go. It will also make you feel less accomplished. I flew solo for my first time after officially 8.5 hours (but the first 1.7 hours I wouldn't count in real terms since they were intro flights and didn't teach me much) and I felt amazing. If it takes you a year to solo, you're gonna feel pretty down (BTW, 8.5 hours is only doable with a really confident instructor in a really non-congested area like upstate NY. A young instructor won't take a chance with you at such low time and even a confident instructor won't be able to get all the work that's necessary to fly in controlled airspace done in that time).
BTW, there are a bunch of frum pilots out there and we all love giving each other support.
All-in-all, flying is amazing, but don't treat it as a mode of transport unless you plan on getting a few licenses (Instrument rating, commercial rating and maybe even more) and your own plane (so that you can tailor it to your needs).
I know that was a doozie of a post. Feel free to ask me anything else :)

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2014, 08:37:36 PM »

BTW, there are a bunch of frum pilots out there and we all love giving each other support.
All-in-all, flying is amazing, but don't treat it as a mode of transport unless you plan on getting a few licenses (Instrument rating, commercial rating and maybe even more) and your own plane (so that you can tailor it to your needs).
I know that was a doozie of a post. Feel free to ask me anything else :)
Awesome!
Flying has always been my dream and I even took a few flight lessons but it's way too expensive a hobby for me.
If you're ever flying in the area and have a spare left seat hook me up will ya? :P
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Offline shtank

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2014, 08:40:15 PM »

If you're ever flying in the area and have a spare left seat hook me up will ya? :P
What area? :)

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2014, 08:41:08 PM »
What area? :)
NYC Duh :P

Most convenient out of KFRG
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Offline Dr Moose

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2014, 08:42:49 PM »


If you're ever flying in the area and have a spare left seat hook me up will ya? :P
+1
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Offline VacationLover

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2014, 09:48:58 PM »
Thanks! A lot of interestong info and facts. Was i right that a Bush plane can fly 2k miles without refuling?

Offline shtank

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2014, 10:19:15 PM »
Thanks! A lot of interestong info and facts. Was i right that a Bush plane can fly 2k miles without refuling?
It would be a massive stretch if possible at all. I would imagine that it would require modification to the fuel system (adding a massive fuel bladder) and that such a trip would be able to be done with only one occupant in the plane. I don't pretend to be an expert on every kind of plane out there, but it sounds a little far fetched. Just to help you understand, let me give you some specs on the planes I am used to flying - Piper Cherokees (in this case a 180HP Archer). The usable fuel on board is 48 gallons. At a rate of 8.5 gal/hr. (which is better than you are likely to get. Usually I get 9-10) that would give just over 5 and a half hours of flying time. Assuming you are doing 125 Knots (which is also a generous number especially if you are flying with passengers), that would give you a range of about 705 nautical miles or about 810 statute miles. Keep in mind that these are likely better than optimal numbers and that you legally have to have enough fuel to fly for at least 30 (during the day) or 45 (at night) minutes past your destination. You would ideally want to have more than that on board.

I don't know anything significant about bush planes but keep in mind that if you have an engine that burns less fuel than what I just mentioned, then it likely flies slower. If you carry more fuel, then either the engine has to be more powerful (and prob burns more fuel) to accommodate the extra weight or you simply wont be able to fit the weight of extra passengers. In the plane I used to fly (a Piper Archer III manufactured in 2000), there was so much avionics that with full fuel you could maybe take one passenger. This is almost like the Seinfeld episode when Kramer and Newman try to figure out how to do the bottle deposits in Michigan.

Offline yehuda S

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2014, 10:46:44 PM »
I have one.

Wow. Amazing info. Thanks for writing it up. I am seriously considering doing it.
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Offline yehuda S

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2014, 10:55:08 PM »
How far is the flight from NY to CLE? Is it too far for the piper?
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Offline shtank

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2014, 11:02:24 PM »
How far is the flight from NY to CLE? Is it too far for the piper?

Definitely doable. Depends how many ppl you want to take and which piper you're talking about but it's 384 nautical miles as the crow flies from KFRG. Figure about 110-125 knots and you got 3-3.5 hours plus a little more for t/o and landing. In either case, you could lighten up on the fuel and make a stop along the way.
Please don't hesitate to ask away on the board or PM me, although I don't always check PMs frequently.
And BTW, check out www.aopa.org they are the most well known pilot advocacy group and there is a wealth of info on their site if you search well enough. If you do decide to go ahead with the training, it's worth it to become a member of AOPA
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 11:14:03 PM by shtank »

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2014, 11:17:16 PM »
My friend who owns a flying school recently took my dad and a few friends from FRG to upstate Michigan. It was a twin engine though, not sure which one.
Curiosity made the cat smarter.