Private Pilot's License

[pcgeek]

Wow! Is that really enough to learn how to fly and land a plane?

+1

[MeirS]

Wow! Is that really enough to learn how to fly and land a plane?

+2

[shtank]

Wow! Is that really enough to learn how to fly and land a plane?

That's why the fact that it was up in the mountains was so important to that. There's very little traffic and the runway in MSV is huge. No need to talk to controllers so the only thing you need to learn is basically how to climb, descend, turn (plus all those 3 together), takeoff (I let passengers do most of the takeoff the first time they come) and landing as well as basic emergency procedures. The difficulty in landing is pretty overblown. It takes practice to be good at it, but landing safely is not terribly hard. It's also worth noting that if you feel at any time the landing doesn't look like it's turning out well, you have the option to go around. That's also a good psychological cushion so you don't feel stressed every time you approach the runway.

So the short answer to your question is yes. But it depends on your instructor's capabilities and willingness to give you the confidence. It also depends on where and at what type of airport you train. Plus, of course, some people learn faster than others.

[srf60]

@shtank
By whom did you train in MSV?
Who do you recommend for LDJ?

[shtank]

@shtank
By whom did you train in MSV?
Who do you recommend for LDJ?

I don't know anyone at LDJ but there are a couple of frum people in a flying club there that say they like one of the instructors in the club.
At MSV I started out with Jason Catanzariti who was really based out of Cherry Ridge and as far as I know is no longer there. Most of my training was with Neil Korman who is not as available as he used to be for primary training.
My first 1.7 hours (after my .7 hour intro flight at FRG) were with Jason and he also did my last 8 or 9 hours or so to prepare me for my test since Neil was already somewhat tied up with other things. Neil Korman is positively the best instructor I have ever had and I consider him to be my main instructor. He helped me solo after about 8 and a half hours, finish my long cross-country with less than 30 hours and I went for my test at about 47.5 hours (The reason for so many hours between the long x-country and the test was I did the first 30 hours in one summer, then my next 8 or 9 hours the next summer in an attempt to get to my test that summer but the scheduling didn't work out and I had to wait till the third summer to finish off which meant another 8 or 9 hours of practice). Both he and Jason were very nice and are good instructors but unfortunately I don't think they are around much anymore although I can send you contact info through PM if you wish.

[srf60]

He helped me solo after about 8 and a half hours, finish my long cross-country with less than 30 hours and I went for my test at about 47.5 hours (The reason for so many hours between the long x-country and the test was I did the first 30 hours in one summer, then my next 8 or 9 hours the next summer in an attempt to get to my test that summer but the scheduling didn't work out and I had to wait till the third summer to finish off which meant another 8 or 9 hours of practice).

Wow, 47 hours to the exam is unbelievable, especially so far split apart!! Even though its past the required 40 hours, the average is probably 80, and I've met people at 110 hrs that haven't gotten their license yet.
Anyhow thanks for all the info, very much appreciated!!

[shtank]

Wow, 47 hours to the exam is unbelievable, especially so far split apart!! Even though its past the required 40 hours, the average is probably 80, and I've met people at 110 hrs that haven't gotten their license yet.
Anyhow thanks for all the info, very much appreciated!!

Yeah the reality is that unless you are very dedicated, go every day you can in succession, the weather cooperates and you are part of either a school or make a serious schedule, 40 hours is somewhat unrealistic for most people. And the fact that I was able to do it in so little time is as much a positive indication of the ability of my instructors as it is of my abilities as a pilot. I also feel that it is very important to try and get to soloing and your license in as little time as possible (meaning it shouldn't take you 50 hours to solo. I know someone who started his training in FRG and had 50 hours but hadn't soloed. Mostly, this was because instructors in Farmingdale are young and don't really know how to instruct. They are reluctant to take the risk of sending a student to solo unless they have a tremendous amount of confirmation that the student is very proficient. Also, in order to actually fly at FRG you do need to have skills in aviation, navigation and communication because it is a towered airport situated under and around congested class B airspace. In a place like MSV, only skills in aviation are required to solo. All you need to really know is how to take off, fly and land in addition to voluntary simple announcements on the com and what to do in case of emergency. Also, the place this person was training was definitely trying to milk him for his money. The reason this was so bad was that even thought he was a good pilot, he was feeling very down about how long it was taking him. When you feel like you are progressing, it gives you the push to continue. When you feel like you're stagnating, you tend to want to drop out). This is why it's very important to find a good instructor, ideally someone who trained a person you know.
One final piece of advice: If you start training with an instructor and you are not happy with him, fire him. He's working for you. I was fortunate enough to not encounter this in my training but I know people who have. It pays to have this attitude. Yes, you will become quite friendly with your instructor over the course of your training, but always have in the back of your mind that he works for you, not the other way around.

[srf60]

Yeah the reality is that unless you are very dedicated, go every day you can in succession, the weather cooperates and you are part of either a school or make a serious schedule, 40 hours is somewhat unrealistic for most people. And the fact that I was able to do it in so little time is as much a positive indication of the ability of my instructors as it is of my abilities as a pilot. I also feel that it is very important to try and get to soloing and your license in as little time as possible (meaning it shouldn't take you 50 hours to solo. I know someone who started his training in FRG and had 50 hours but hadn't soloed. Mostly, this was because instructors in Farmingdale are young and don't really know how to instruct. They are reluctant to take the risk of sending a student to solo unless they have a tremendous amount of confirmation that the student is very proficient. Also, in order to actually fly at FRG you do need to have skills in aviation, navigation and communication because it is a towered airport situated under and around congested class B airspace. In a place like MSV, only skills in aviation are required to solo. All you need to really know is how to take off, fly and land in addition to voluntary simple announcements on the com and what to do in case of emergency. Also, the place this person was training was definitely trying to milk him for his money. The reason this was so bad was that even thought he was a good pilot, he was feeling very down about how long it was taking him. When you feel like you are progressing, it gives you the push to continue. When you feel like you're stagnating, you tend to want to drop out). This is why it's very important to find a good instructor, ideally someone who trained a person you know.
One final piece of advice: If you start training with an instructor and you are not happy with him, fire him. He's working for you. I was fortunate enough to not encounter this in my training but I know people who have. It pays to have this attitude. Yes, you will become quite friendly with your instructor over the course of your training, but always have in the back of your mind that he works for you, not the other way around.

1. Thanks for all your info and advice.
2. What the difference between private and a "school" ( for example I trained at Danny Waizman "flight school", and then you have Kings which is very big), I mean do people train as a class?!?!
3. I understand that MSV is great cause there is no radio stuff involved, but LDJ has tower control, as do most places especially in the NYC area. ( BTW I think near Lakewood there are a few small strips).
4. What the approximate cost to get a license. ( think its in the $10,000 range, makes sense?).
Thanks.

[shtank]

1. Thanks for all your info and advice.
2. What the difference between private and a "school" ( for example I trained at Danny Waizman "flight school", and then you have Kings which is very big), I mean do people train as a class?!?!
3. I understand that MSV is great cause there is no radio stuff involved, but LDJ has tower control, as do most places especially in the NYC area. ( BTW I think near Lakewood there are a few small strips).
4. What the approximate cost to get a license. ( think its in the $10,000 range, makes sense?).
Thanks.

1. My pleasure!
2. When I say school I mean a part 141 school which usually has a more rigid curriculum and usually they offer a flat fee for your license. Downside is, you are bound by their schedule. Most people around here usually go with some form of Part 61 where you have an instructor that goes at your pace and you pay per usage. Even larger places are usually part 61 (example is Nassau Flyers in FRG). In either case, I highly recommend  joining a club especially for getting your license.
3.LDJ does not have a tower but it is in a somewhat interesting airspace. Lakewood airport is a nice place too. There is a club there but I have no real info on it.
4. You are correct. I was very fortunate that it for me it ended up being about $7500 total but you need to assume at least $10k.

[dealvr]

@shtank thanks for all the detailed info.. can't believe it took me so long to find this thread

[MeirS]

@shtank,
Thanks for all the info you've supplied us.
Does it make sense that after 2 or 3 lessons, the instructor would be able to tell if it'll end up costing you much less or much more than $10k?

[yidsimple]

After the first 10 minutes I can tell if someone will be a minimum timer or more. Just so you know the National average is 70-80 hours. It makes you no less of a pilot. But we all learn differently, have different schedules, etc.

[ual902]

Anybody @ Oshkosh?

[ual902]

After the first 10 minutes I can tell if someone will be a minimum timer or more. Just so you know the National average is 70-80 hours. It makes you no less of a pilot. But we all learn differently, have different schedules, etc.

 My instructor used to say and its true "a good pilot is ALWAYS learning".

[yidsimple]

Anybody @ Oshkosh?

I am there in spirit, I am getting updates pics and all by the minute!

[shtank]

@shtank,
Thanks for all the info you've supplied us.
Does it make sense that after 2 or 3 lessons, the instructor would be able to tell if it'll end up costing you much less or much more than $10k?

I'm not an instructor so can't tell you first-hand. Perhaps it's possible in some situations but there can always be things that are only noticeable later on. I'll give you an example and a counter-example. What if someone flies amazingly at the beginning but has serious trouble flying solo. Maybe they freeze up. Maybe they have trouble learning how to speak on the radio. Maybe they are not good at navigation. Whatever it is, sometimes hitting a bump or 2 in the road can hold someone back significantly. Also, what if money becomes tight half-way through. This could mean much more time because of the infrequency of training.

On the other hand, some people may take a long time to get acclimated to the flying environment, but once they do, they absorb quickly.

What did the instructor tell you?

[shtank]

My instructor used to say and its true "a good pilot is ALWAYS learning".

+1
I think this is true for most vocations.

[Shunts]

Thank you for all the helpful information thus far.
 
I am looking for a flight school in Northern California and came across multiple options. Is there a criteria you use other than price and distance to choose a school? Below are the two I am looking into.

http://www.napajetcenter.com/pilotservices/flighttraining
http://www.psa.aero/flight-academy/

[shtank]

Thank you for all the helpful information thus far.
 
I am looking for a flight school in Northern California and came across multiple options. Is there a criteria you use other than price and distance to choose a school? Below are the two I am looking into.

http://www.napajetcenter.com/pilotservices/flighttraining
http://www.psa.aero/flight-academy/

Ultimately, the biggest issue is how you like the instructor. It may be worthwhile to do an intro flight with 2-3 places and see which you like best.
There are other factors, however. Cost of rental is one. Another is what type of airport (towered, untowered, how busy it is, length of runway, is it in complex airspace?) it is. The airports where the schools are that you sent me seem to both be towered airports near Class B airspace. That's fine but towered airports are usually busier and they require you to learn how to communicate and often more navigation skills before you get to solo. Same is true about being near Class B. Optimally, I think it is best to learn at an airport that is untowered, has a decent size runway (doesn't need to be huge. 4000'-5000' is plenty. Some ppl like the idea of learning on a short runway since it hones their skills better. Personally, I'd rather solo and then have time to hone my skills at a nearby short field), is not near high-traffic areas, is relatively not busy but is close enough to a couple towered airports so you can practice towered operations.
I also feel obligated to mention that it is worthwhile to search out flying clubs. I've posted a whole bunch of reasons I think this is a good idea before.
You should also see if you can find reviews on specific schools, or even better, instructors. Not sure exactly where to find sites for this but Google is your friend. Maybe ask any potential instructor for references or see if you meet people at the airport who are familiar with different schools or instructors. Pilots love chatting about flying so don't be shy.
What did I miss?

[yidsimple]

Wow, well said!