Author Topic: Private Pilot's License  (Read 13593 times)

Offline ueaiouioei

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2014, 02:52:28 PM »
I'm going to check out a Monmouth County Flight Club (That's lakewood in case your wondering) meeting in two weeks and possibly join the club. If anyone is interested in joining me send me a pm. You can check out their website here:  http://www.flymafc.com

Live life to the fullest

Offline FlightGuy

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2014, 05:53:39 PM »
to quote shtank "A few other pieces of advice: Make sure you have all the money you are going to need to complete training before your first lesson. For me, start to finish I spent $7500 but I was extremely lucky since I b"H got an amazing instructor and was able to do most of my training in one summer "


HE IS SO RIGHT!  I love flying, and took lessons before i got married have around 40 hours but didnt quite get my licence yet. I spent over $5,000 and couldn't afford it anymore, now years later married, wife doesnt want me to finish lessons and its expensive, it pays to put aside money for the whole training in the beginning! In any case many many pilots fly cross country or use the plane to travel on vacations, it can be very enjoyable if you like aviation and the challenge, however as many people said, these small Cessna'a and Piper's do'nt move very fast so it can take a while, but it is SO WORTH IT, there is nothing like the peace and tranquility of being up in a small plane!

One correction: someone above mentioned Teterboro Airport, I took lessons out of there but that was in the late 90's,there are no flying schools there anymore,just Corporate Jet FBO's, if you are in the NY area, Caldwell airport (essex county airport) is great, or Morristown airport. Good luck!

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2015, 11:18:36 AM »
I would guess a Piper Seneca if he was using the school's twin engine
It's actually a Twin Comanche.

to quote shtank "A few other pieces of advice: Make sure you have all the money you are going to need to complete training before your first lesson. For me, start to finish I spent $7500 but I was extremely lucky since I b"H got an amazing instructor and was able to do most of my training in one summer "


HE IS SO RIGHT!  I love flying, and took lessons before i got married have around 40 hours but didnt quite get my licence yet. I spent over $5,000 and couldn't afford it anymore, now years later married, wife doesnt want me to finish lessons and its expensive, it pays to put aside money for the whole training in the beginning!
Very true. Though there are companies that do financing for Flight Schools. Help's spread the expenses out over a longer time period.
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline MyMalarky

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2015, 07:56:51 PM »
I have my Private's; 178 hrs total time. I actually crashed a Cessna 152 in Lakeland, FL while I was doing my training.

Nevertheless, the best most cost effective way: actually purchase a single engine plane, via an LLC and create a Flying Club with the plane and/or speak with your local FBO and ask if you could put your plane in their fleet and have them rent it out for you when you are not using it! You can easily make money doing this as most FBO would welcome another plane in their fleet they don't have to pay for. And make sure in the agreement you word it to where they do all the maintenance at cost for you.

Offline shtank

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2015, 09:16:37 PM »

Nevertheless, the best most cost effective way: actually purchase a single engine plane, via an LLC and create a Flying Club with the plane and/or speak with your local FBO and ask if you could put your plane in their fleet and have them rent it out for you when you are not using it! You can easily make money doing this as most FBO would welcome another plane in their fleet they don't have to pay for. And make sure in the agreement you word it to where they do all the maintenance at cost for you.

While a leaseback MAY be the most cost effective sometimes, it is fairly complex (especially for someone new to aviation). There is inherent risk involved that you don't have as much of with an established club (especially one that has multiple airplanes).
There are also other complications. Most FBOs that I know of, especially in or near large cities don't have much of an interest in older (perfectly safe and acceptable, well maintained) planes. Their customers don't want to fly them because they want the latest and greatest (glass cockpit, the whole deal). This means that you either have to plunk down lots of dough for a fairly new airplane (which depreciates rapidly especially with use and especially when used by mainly students at an FBO who don't care much about the plane) or know beforehand that you have a leaseback partner who doesn't mind an older, cheaper plane.
I think creating a small club with an airplane (or 2) is a more realistic and less risky option. That said, the least risky is to join a pre-existing, established club that has at least 2 or 3 planes. This way, if one has maintenance issues for a month, you're not out of luck with your training (or worse, your checkride). I think the most valuable thing about joining a club is the predictability you get. You can make a good estimate of how much you will spend. You don't get that with buying your own plane.
BTW, if there are enough DDFers in or around NYC and would want to start a frum club in the NYC area (LDJ or even FRG), I would consider joining and I know a few more who would love to be part of a frum flying club if the circumstances were right. A decent plane can cost between 50K and 100K and can be financed as a non-profit corporation. If we get 5-10 people in the club, that's a fairly good deal. Lots to talk about with this but would love to hear other people's thoughts.

BTW, whatever options anyone chooses , when it comes to buying an airplane or starting a club or leasing a plane to an FBO or anything similar, make sure to get a good aviation lawyer to hash out the details. AOPA offers legal services and I would be surprised if this kind of consulting would be very cost prohibitive.


Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2015, 09:24:55 PM »

BTW, if there are enough DDFers in or around NYC and would want to start a frum club in the NYC area (LDJ or even FRG), I would consider joining and I know a few more who would love to be part of a frum flying club if the circumstances were right. A decent plane can cost between 50K and 100K and can be financed as a non-profit corporation. If we get 5-10 people in the club, that's a fairly good deal. Lots to talk about with this but would love to hear other people's thoughts.



I'm trying to work out now if taking lessons would work out financially and practically, but if I do get my PPL I would totally be in...
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline shtank

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #51 on: January 01, 2015, 09:27:29 PM »
I'm trying to work out now if taking lessons would work out financially and practically, but if I do get my PPL I would totally be in...
Feel free to ask for any info/advice. Pm me if u need to. Hope it all works out for u!

Offline chff

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2015, 09:39:09 PM »
cool idea about the club, just that FRG is so far from Brooklyn, and as the 3rd busiest airport in NY, I'm sure rent is high

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2015, 09:42:56 PM »
Feel free to ask for any info/advice. Pm me if u need to. Hope it all works out for u!
Thanks. I'll take you up on that:)

Now if only I could find a school that takes miles... :P
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline yidsimple

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2015, 10:21:01 PM »
I can teach the ground school classes. I know of at least 3 here in Monsey that want to learn how to fly. I started teaching one guy who is buying a cirrus but I got married and do not have the time now.

Offline shtank

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2015, 10:37:33 PM »
cool idea about the club, just that FRG is so far from Brooklyn, and as the 3rd busiest airport in NY, I'm sure rent is high

As far as distance, truth is it depends where you live and what time of day you go. Linden is about equidistant from Brooklyn compared to FRG but sometimes has less traffic. But it has 2 tolls and can get bottlenecked that way. Linden is definitely closer from BP but usually about the same from Flatbush. In terms of rent, I am pretty sure that a tiedown is $140/mo which is fairly high. And everything is more expensive in FRG plus you have to deal with FRG controllers and traffic. The controllers are usually not great at keeping things moving there. I once had to go around 3 times because a controller made me get out of the way of a bizjet. That's just unprofessional. Plus landings cost $2.50 there which sounds like nothing but it adds up and is annoying. Another thing about FRG is that in order to get rampside access you have to have an ID which costs, as of this writing, I believe $70 for 2 years and is a bit of a trek from the parking lot to your tiedown spot; not comfortable in winter or summer and really annoying if you forget something in the car and/or if you forget your ID card.
For all of these reasons and more I would avoid FRG, but I brought it up as an option just for flexibility. I think in terms of the frum population (Brooklyn, Lakewood, Monsey, etc.) LDJ would probably be the most central.

Offline shtank

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #56 on: January 01, 2015, 10:41:07 PM »
I can teach the ground school classes. I know of at least 3 here in Monsey that want to learn how to fly. I started teaching one guy who is buying a cirrus but I got married and do not have the time now.
Just curious, why only ground school? Do you have a ground instructor certificate or are you a full CFI? Or neither and would just be willing to help out a student?
Along these lines, it would be a great coincidental benefit if there were diverse occupations from potential members of this (very theoretical at this point) club. A club would do well to have someone experience with bookkeeping/accounting, a lawyer or legal guru and a CFI just to mention a few.

Offline yidsimple

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2015, 10:48:25 PM »
I am an ATP with CFII-MEI. I mention ground school because my teaching days are over. Teaching someone how to fly takes a great deal of time and me just recently married I am spread quite thin. In addition I do aviation consulting and am involved in other projects. Ground school with a set time and place is something I enjoy and it would be quite easy to fit into my schedule.

Offline shtank

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2015, 10:53:04 PM »
I am an ATP with CFII-MEI. I mention ground school because my teaching days are over. Teaching someone how to fly takes a great deal of time and me just recently married I am spread quite thin. In addition I do aviation consulting and am involved in other projects. Ground school with a set time and place is something I enjoy and it would be quite easy to fit into my schedule.
Awesome! Hope you keep following this thread then, and maybe, if we get a club together, you'de be a part of it. I got married a couple of years ago and haven't been able to afford as much or fit as much in as I used to either. Care to share more about your aviation story? What and where do you fly now? Where did you learn? etc. No pressure, just good to shmooze with other pilots, especially frum ones.

Offline eAge

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2015, 10:54:24 PM »

I actually crashed a Cessna 152 in Lakeland, FL
Like.