Author Topic: Obamacare Master thread  (Read 18497 times)

Offline Matovu

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Re: Obamacare Master thread
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2016, 06:24:50 AM »
And I have a bridge to sell you for a good price.

I am the first to acknowledge that we had a flawed system, but rather than addressing the fundamental flaws, Obamacare created an even worse system with added complexity and compliance overhead at all levels.

Ask anyone heading payroll in an office that offers healthcare (I know firsthand) how the rates were always going up. No bridge to sell here. Facts.

How can you say that if millions of people are now covered ? No it's not a worse system at all.

I also will admit it has it's flaws.

Offline Matovu

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Re: Obamacare Master thread
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2016, 06:29:13 AM »
Baloney. I'm paying more than double for my family than I was 3 years ago, and almost every top tier doctor in the city of los angeles won't take any insurance anymore. So both I and my wife had to switch doctors more than once. Cedars Sinai Medical Center and UCLA, the two best hospitals in town, take 2 insurances. 2. So I'm paying a ton more, have a 10K deductible instead of a 2500 deductible, and still have to worry about finding a decent doctor. And everyone I know who was paying their own way before (not on welfare of some sort) has the same issue.

Insurance premiums go up every year.
In a 3 year period it could have doubled.
I will say this again, your insurance would probably have gone up more without this law.

Offline jojo-nj

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Re: Obamacare Master thread
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2016, 07:36:17 AM »
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 07:44:53 AM by jojo-nj »

Offline yelped

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Re: Obamacare Master thread
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2016, 10:01:38 AM »
Ask anyone heading payroll in an office that offers healthcare (I know firsthand) how the rates were always going up. No bridge to sell here. Facts.

How can you say that if millions of people are now covered ? No it's not a worse system at all.

I also will admit it has it's flaws.
Are you serious? I think it's pretty clear to all of us that Obamacare's mandates and penalties have caused the experience described by thaber

Offline thaber

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Re: Obamacare Master thread
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2016, 10:09:44 AM »
Insurance premiums go up every year.
In a 3 year period it could have doubled.
I will say this again, your insurance would probably have gone up more without this law.
No,  the years prior were relatively stable.  They went up because they were no longer allowed to offer that plan,  and all new plans had to include all kinds of things,  such as dental for kids etc.  As well as be available to people with a preexisting condition etc. And many insurers simply left my local market, so there is less competition.

Online aygart

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Re: Obamacare Master thread
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2016, 10:22:47 AM »
The premiums going up would have risen more without the law.

Obamacare will cost $2.6 trillion less over five years than earlier estimated,

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article95120132.html#storylink=cpy
You are bringing an opinion piece to show facts? From someone advocating single payer too? Have you ever experienced Canadian medicine?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Matovu

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Re: Obamacare Master thread
« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2016, 10:31:47 AM »
You are bringing an opinion piece to show facts? From someone advocating single payer too? Have you ever experienced Canadian medicine?

Canadian medicine is fine.(My spouce experienced it. Do i have credibility? )
Have any idea how many Americans were dying every year by not having any coverage ? I'm talking middle class americans. Canadians don't suffer this, and this goes for most of the world.

I'm sad to say this, but I'm really glad some conservatives are now screaming that medical insurance in the US stinks. Price is too high and deductibles are sky rocketing. Time for national insurance. This will result in a healthier society, more people won't have to think twice before visiting a doctor for a minor issue. They won't wait for an emergency to take care of themselves.

High time this country has a medical system for all, and not only for the super rich. Maybe this news is a conservative wake up call.

In the end despite the bad news with Aetna e.t.c. if you read a little deeper, they are going to come back into the exchanges in a year or two once it stabilizes a bit. Obamacare willl be judged an historic achievement. Too many lawmakers rooting for its failure right now.

Offline elit

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Re: Obamacare Master thread
« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2016, 10:42:12 AM »
Insurance premiums go up every year.
In a 3 year period it could have doubled.
I will say this again, your insurance would probably have gone up more without this law.
That's such a ridiculous statement even if it was true. You are saying that all the money and political capital that went into creating obomacare was so health care is just a plain disaster instead of a horrible disaster. Bottom line is I pay 10k  in premiums and still have a 4 k deductible and I get a letter in the mail that it's going up 15% and your answer is that Obamacare is an historic achievement bc it could've been worse? That's just not going to fly for the average american.
And the idea that mow so many more people have insurance just doesn't add up either if they were low income before Obamacare they were getting medicaid same as now and if they weren't low income enough to be eligible then they aren't now and it will still cost them 10 k to get a subpar plan so how is it more accessible now?

Offline elit

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Re: Obamacare Master thread
« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2016, 10:52:10 AM »


Canadian medicine is fine.(My spouce experienced it. Do i have credibility? )
Have any idea how many Americans were dying every year by not having any coverage ? I'm talking middle class americans. Canadians don't suffer this, and this goes for most of the world.

I'm sad to say this, but I'm really glad some conservatives are now screaming that medical insurance in the US stinks. Price is too high and deductibles are sky rocketing. Time for national insurance. This will result in a healthier society, more people won't have to think twice before visiting a doctor for a minor issue. They won't wait for an emergency to take care of themselves.

High time this country has a medical system for all, and not only for the super rich. Maybe this news is a conservative wake up call.

In the end despite the bad news with Aetna e.t.c. if you read a little deeper, they are going to come back into the exchanges in a year or two once it stabilizes a bit. Obamacare willl be judged an historic achievement. Too many lawmakers rooting for its failure right now.

This is such garbage. At least you admit that Obamacare is just a stepping stone for nationalized healthcare. The conservatives have been screaming about insurance costs just as much as liberals have been they just have a completely different approach to dealing with the issue and so far the liberal approach has been a disaster.
Oh and pls tell me how many people died bc of the lack of insurance?
The poor of this country have probably the best insurance coverage of anyone and certainly a lot better than in country's like Canada where the wealthy pay for private insurance to compensate for the terrible national insurance.
I know a Canadian who couldn't walk to shul on shabbos for 5 years while he had to wait to get knee surgery

Offline Matovu

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Re: Obamacare Master thread
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2016, 11:10:14 AM »

This is such garbage. At least you admit that Obamacare is just a stepping stone for nationalized healthcare. The conservatives have been screaming about insurance costs just as much as liberals have been they just have a completely different approach to dealing with the issue and so far the liberal approach has been a disaster.
Oh and pls tell me how many people died bc of the lack of insurance?
The poor of this country have probably the best insurance coverage of anyone and certainly a lot better than in country's like Canada where the wealthy pay for private insurance to compensate for the terrible national insurance.
I know a Canadian who couldn't walk to shul on shabbos for 5 years while he had to wait to get knee surgery

What different approach are you talking about ?
One item about crossing state lines ?
The current law is straight out of republican textbooks. Forcing us to buy into the free marletplace is somthing yiu should applaud. As I said above your lawmakers in both houses comittees practically wrote the law.
If too many people are now sick and bleeding the program then we should give it a few more years to stabilize. The Auto industry has been doing very well dor themselves and the model should work here as well. Give it more time. By bringing in more people in the  system it should fluctuate.
The liberal approach is clear. National Insurance. The current law is a good first step.

The current law is straight out of republican textbooks. As I said above your lawmakers in both houses comittees practically wrote the law.
The liberal approach is clear. National Insurance.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 11:16:43 AM by Matovu »

Offline thaber

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Re: Obamacare Master thread
« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2016, 11:25:16 AM »
There is no open marketplace,  since there are minimum mandated requirements,  so it's a controlled market in which a lot of prospective competitors can't compete,  leaving just a handful who can't offer true a la carte because they have to offer it to more people than they would like and more coverage than they would like.
A government controlled marketplace is a disaster,  the Canadian and Israeli system are semi disasters.

Offline elit

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Re: Obamacare Master thread
« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2016, 11:29:49 AM »


What different approach are you talking about ?
One item about crossing state lines ?
The current law is straight out of republican textbooks. Forcing us to buy into the free marletplace is somthing yiu should applaud. As I said above your lawmakers in both houses comittees practically wrote the law.
If too many people are now sick and bleeding the program then we should give it a few more years to stabilize. The Auto industry has been doing very well dor themselves and the model should work here as well. Give it more time. By bringing in more people in the  system it should fluctuate.
The liberal approach is clear. National Insurance. The current law is a good first step.

The current law is straight out of republican textbooks. As I said above your lawmakers in both houses comittees practically wrote the law.
The liberal approach is clear. National Insurance.

Funny how you say this is a republican written law. How about restricting outrageous malpractice lawsuits that inflate medical costs, cut out fraudulent billing practices, allow a real free market where insurances can offer across Stateline and to people they can afford to cover

Offline Matovu

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Re: Obamacare Master thread
« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2016, 11:40:22 AM »

Funny how you say this is a republican written law. How about restricting outrageous malpractice lawsuits that inflate medical costs, cut out fraudulent billing practices, allow a real free market where insurances can offer across Stateline and to people they can afford to cover

you had plenty of time controlling all 3 branches of government to introduce this.
old rehashed argument here.
I rather you say it more clearly, no lawsuits for malpractice at all.
come on how do you differenciate outrageous from others ? won't work.
(this reminds me from the old republican "taxes are to high" argument. What they really want is pay Zero. say it so0

Offline Matovu

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Re: Obamacare Master thread
« Reply #73 on: August 16, 2016, 11:44:09 AM »
There is no open marketplace,  since there are minimum mandated requirements,  so it's a controlled market in which a lot of prospective competitors can't compete,  leaving just a handful who can't offer true a la carte because they have to offer it to more people than they would like and more coverage than they would like.
A government controlled marketplace is a disaster,  the Canadian and Israeli system are semi disasters.

the real disaster is us being the only country that has people refraining visiting a doctor for something so minor as a throat culture because it cost 60.00
that is plain suicidal.

I know real people that skipped simple but important operations like hernia e.t.c. because of no insurance.

you bet we should be proud that the whole world comes here to my immigrant Pakistani doctor performing Siamese twins...
not even an argument.

Online ExGingi

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Re: Obamacare Master thread
« Reply #74 on: August 17, 2016, 11:43:25 AM »
There's a lot to respond and debunk @Matovu's statements, but right now I see as the most interesting development the fact that there's a county in Arizona that will have a grand total of 0 (that's a ZERO) plans available on the exchange for 2017!

I am wondering if this can go back to SCOTUS and point out that they simply erred when they approved the individual mandate by saying it is a tax.

This situation sounds worse than Bolshevism - the government taxing you unless you purchase something that is simply not available for purchase, and the government can't do anything about it.

It took a little long to unravel, but the writing was on the wall from day 1. There was absolutely NO WAY in the world that Obamacare could work!