US Politics/2016 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Hopefully the Dems and FBI will give a clear rebuttal of which facts they dispute.

It is the WH's mouthpiece opinion. Please point out the opinions backed up by facts?

[aygart]

It is the WH's mouthpiece opinion. Please point out the opinions backed up by facts?

That is a ridiculous request. The underlying evidence is classified as of now. If you are telling me that I should call for release of underlying docs, you know that I have done that numerous times. Until they are declassified the best we can do is

Hope the Dems and FBI will give a clear rebuttal of which facts they dispute.

[ilherman]

If true this is really big.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/house-intel-memo-released-what-it-says/article/2647937

The House Intelligence Committee has released its controversial memo outlining alleged abuses of secret surveillance by the FBI and Justice Department in the Trump-Russia investigation. Here are some key points:

* The Steele dossier formed an essential part of the initial and all three renewal FISA applications against Carter Page.

* Andrew McCabe confirmed that no FISA warrant would have been sought from the FISA Court without the Steele dossier information.

* The political origins of the Steele dossier were known to senior DOJ and FBI officials, but excluded from the FISA applications.

* DOJ official Bruce Ohr met with Steele beginning in the summer of 2016 and relayed to DOJ information about Steele's bias. Steele told Ohr that he, Steele, was desperate that Donald Trump not get elected president and was passionate about him not becoming president.

So will all knew this for the past week, what exactly did we get smarter now?

[aygart]

Please point out the opinions backed up by facts?

The statements of fact which they make are not so complicated. Did McCabe testify that the warrant was dependent on the dossier or not? Did the FBI disclose the funding behind it to the court or not? Did they know beforehand or not? Is Steele's admission to Ohr documented or not? Did they disclose Ohr' wife's involvement to the FISA court or not?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

That is a ridiculous request. The underlying evidence is classified as of now. If you are telling me that I should call for release of underlying docs, you know that I have done that numerous times. Until they are declassified the best we can do is

So none of it is backed up. Just say that and save the spin. I said from the beginning this is useless without the underlying material. You want to get into he said she said (R's vs D's). Go right ahead but don't spin this as fact.

[aygart]

So none of it is backed up. Just say that and save the spin. I said from the beginning this is useless without the underlying material. You want to get into he said she said (R's vs D's). Go right ahead but don't spin this as fact.

Let us see if any facts are disputed. If there are facts which are undisputed then we know they are believable.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

The statements of fact which they make are not so complicated. Did McCabe testify that the warrant was dependent on the dossier or not? Did the FBI disclose the funding behind it to the court or not? Did they know beforehand or not? Is Steele's admission to Ohr documented or not? Did they disclose Ohr' wife's involvement to the FISA court or not?

The FISA application is said to be 60-65 pages. No I don't know what is in those 60-65 pages and you don't either.

So this has nothing to do with the Mueller investigation?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Let us see if any facts are disputed. If there are facts which are undisputed then we know they are believable.

You can call them facts all you want but that doesn't make them facts. Are you going to call the D's memo facts? Lets get real here!!!

[aygart]

The FISA application is said to be 60-65 pages. No I don't know what is in those 60-65 pages and you don't either.

So this has nothing to do with the Mueller investigation?

Fine, purported facts.

I do not see how anything in this memo would have any effect on the Mueller investigation. It clearly concedes that there was an investigation started pre-dossier.

Do you see anything in here which backs up the Dem and FBI claim that its release endangers national security? I do not. There is nothing in there that hasn't been discussed numerous times already. If so then why were they outright lying about that? Are there any unknown names in there that you can see any reason for them to have redacted, or was that also only a istraction by the DOJ?

[henche]

So none of it is backed up. Just say that and save the spin. I said from the beginning this is useless without the underlying material. You want to get into he said she said (R's vs D's). Go right ahead but don't spin this as fact.

The D's have said this is fact. They've said there are other facts they also want to make public, but agreed these are fact.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Do you see anything in here which backs up the Dem and FBI claim that its release endangers national security? I do not. There is nothing in there that hasn't been discussed numerous times already. If so then why were they outright lying about that?

There was things removed/redacted from the report so those could be what the FBI was concerned about. I only saw parts of the report you posted. In those I didn't see anything.

Ok now it is your turn to answer a simple relevant question. Are you going to call the D's memo facts as you did the R's?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

The D's have said this is fact. They've said there are other facts they also want to make public, but agreed these are fact.

PUOSU!!!

[sillypainter]

Am I the only one who sees no value in the so-called "RELEASED MEMO"? I hope that not all "secrets", are as "secretive" as this memo :-)

[aygart]

There was things removed/redacted from the report so those could be what the FBI was concerned about. I only parts of the report you posted. In those I didn't see anything.

Ok now it is your turn to answer a simple relevant question. Are you going to call the D's memo facts as you did the R's?

I only meant claimed facts. I do not know them to be true. I wrote that already and even before that was pretty clear. I will do the same about claims of fact in the Dem memo. If there is something which is disputed then it is a disputed fact. Lets see what they come out with. I have been very clear about this and do not know what your game is to intentionally twist my words. You are being dishonest. I have never said or even implied that I am believing them simply because the Rs claim it to be true. I do not. When I originally quoted the article with main points I prefaced it with

If true this is really big.

[aygart]

There was things removed/redacted from the report so those could be what the FBI was concerned about.

#fakenews

[ChaimMoskowitz]

I only meant claimed facts. I do not know them to be true. I wrote that already and even before that was pretty clear. I will do the same about claims of fact in the Dem memo. If there is something which is disputed then it is a disputed fact. Lets see what they come out with. I have been very clear about this and do not know what your game is to intentionally twist my words. You are being dishonest. I have never said or even implied that I am believing them simply because the Rs claim it to be true. I do not. When I originally quoted the article with main points I prefaced it with

You keep calling these facts over and over. Do I really need to quote every time you called them facts. How is that twisting your words when you have done it over and over?

When you say they are facts you imply you believe them and others should.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

#fakenews

What is? The R's said they removed two items the D's and FBI wanted out. Then the D's complained the R's changed the memo without approval.

[aygart]

You keep calling these facts over and over. Do I really need to quote every time you called them facts. How is that twisting your words when you have done it over and over?

When you say they are facts you imply you believe them and others should.

They are claims of fact as opposed to opinion. Get real.

[aygart]

What is? The R's said they removed two items the D's and FBI wanted out. Then the D's complained the R's changed the memo without approval.

It was being said about the memo as presented to the WH which this is.

[aygart]

https://twitter.com/SteveKingIA/status/959488327677300736