Author Topic: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol  (Read 4773 times)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« on: September 13, 2015, 12:04:52 PM »
Is it possible to explain so a fifth grader would understand?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ilherman

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2015, 12:18:43 PM »
Next time be early morning in Shull. I slept this night just about 2 hours.
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline David Smith

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2015, 12:23:54 PM »
Hatarat nedarim is annulment of vows. Breaking a promise (normally accepting something upon yourself, not a promise to someone else) is a serious sin, and before the Day of Judgement on Rosh Hashanah (the New Year, tomorrow and Tuesday, starting tonight), we try to be as sin free as possible. The basic premise of hatarat nedarim is that if the vow was taken based on a mistaken presumption, it may be annulled by a halachic court. Since the gravity of the vow hits home when the judgement is almost upon us, we ask for annulment, as we wouldn't have undertaken the promise with the commitment of a vow knowing and understanding the risks of not keeping to it properly. This is fine before the Jewish males of age, who comprise a Beis Din (Halachic court), who hear the request from the petitioner and pronounce his vows nullified.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2015, 12:27:32 PM by David Smith »
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline David Smith

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2015, 12:28:32 PM »
Pruzbul is going to get a shabbos switch reaction, so I'll leave that for someone else.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2015, 12:31:43 PM »
So if I fully understood the promise I made and still broke it this would not be able to be annulled?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2015, 12:38:07 PM »
Pruzbul is going to get a shabbos switch reaction, so I'll leave that for someone else.
You did a great job on the first one so give it a try.  :)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline etech0

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2015, 12:44:37 PM »
You did a great job on the first one so give it a try.  :)
Maybe wait 'til Friday
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline zevmetz

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2015, 12:46:04 PM »

So if I fully understood the promise I made and still broke it this would not be able to be annulled?
Incorrect, that's why there is kol nidrei.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2015, 12:48:16 PM »
Maybe wait 'til Friday
Not sure I can wait as I am wondering if this has implications for me.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline zevmetz

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2015, 12:49:20 PM »
Pruzbul is that normally if someone owes you money,  after shmita he would not have to pay you back excluding debts that are owed to beis din. Therefore we give all our debts over to beis din so we can collect them even after shmita.

Offline David Smith

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2015, 12:51:54 PM »
Pruzbul is that normally if someone owes you money,  after shmita he would not have to pay you back excluding debts that are owed to beis din. Therefore we give all our debts over to beis din so we can collect them even after shmita.
Want to get into derabanan bzman hszeh, hefker Beis Din hefker, and zman sheyivel nahug?
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2015, 12:53:08 PM »
Pruzbul is that normally if someone owes you money,  after shmita he would not have to pay you back excluding debts that are owed to beis din. Therefore we give all our debts over to beis din so we can collect them even after shmita.
Would this cover a loan a non-Jew made to a Jew.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ilherman

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2015, 12:55:10 PM »
I would guess that Shmita is only Meshamet jew>jew.

So a non jew does not need a Pruzbol.
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline zevmetz

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2015, 12:56:55 PM »

Want to get into derabanan bzman hszeh, hefker Beis Din hefker, and zman sheyivel nahug?
Please... It's one line! That would be for the tife shailos thread.

Offline David Smith

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2015, 12:58:27 PM »
So if I fully understood the promise I made and still broke it this would not be able to be annulled?
You understood then on an intellectual level, but if you really understood and felt the gravity the risks, you wouldn't have undertaken it as a binding commitment, being as the negative of breaking it far outweighs the positive of keeping it. (You can do whatever good practice you undertook without accepting it upon yourself as a binding commitment.) If you specifically have in mind that your annulment should not apply to that vow, it's not annulled.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline zevmetz

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2015, 12:58:36 PM »

Would this cover a loan a non-Jew made to a Jew.
You trying to get a way with not paying your cc bill??

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2015, 01:03:04 PM »
You trying to get a way with not paying your cc bill??
I am asking if a non-Jew made a 25k loan to a Jew is their some Jewish law he could use to wiggle out of the debt.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline zevmetz

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2015, 01:04:22 PM »
In today's day and age with civil law, no.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2015, 01:09:10 PM »
In today's day and age with civil law, no.
Thanks but you know that is not what I am asking.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline Centro

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Re: Hatarat Nedarim and Pruzbol
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2015, 01:09:21 PM »
I am asking if a non-Jew made a 25k loan to a Jew is their some Jewish law he could use to wiggle out of the debt.
Nops.