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« Last edited by yuneeq on February 19, 2017, 11:48:01 PM »

Author Topic: Take Back Lakewood  (Read 114764 times)

Offline Fish Tank

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2016, 01:15:36 AM »
I'm gonna lose it soon!🙃

Can we please for heaven's sake stop inserting "BMG" as the source of all the town's evils???!?

Why on earth do you think BMG would be officially pro over development? Traffic? Satmar? Belz? Etc etc.
Because all they care about is money. They don't care about traffic/parking problems. You can see that from their own projects. They built an 1100 seat BM and didn't add even one additional parking spot! (They actually took away 40 spots when they built the building)

Offline Fish Tank

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2016, 01:17:23 AM »

But no one is going to listen to, or legitimize any campaign that speaks negatively of BMG etc.
Lol. That's the way it used to be when LKWD was made up of puppet yungeleit. Those days are long over.

Offline Fish Tank

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2016, 01:18:53 AM »

I suggest you try to actually go sit down with the vaad of Lakewood! - I know this may sound shocking - but try it. - Explain your agenda, they may be actually be supportive! They can assert direct influence over elected officials. Lots of it... They are actually not all evil monsters..
This comment strongly suggests that you are either affiliated with the vaad, or unaware of what/who the vaad is and does.

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2016, 01:21:42 AM »
I still believe the this can be done better in a positive way, with the backing of many many rabbonim.
No Rav in town will back a campaign that isn't aligned with BMG.

Offline Fish Tank

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2016, 01:23:26 AM »
Don't say cynical things like "you get kicked out of school etc"
That's the reality. Many people have gotten the threat, so they stopped in their tracks. HH didn't stop, and guess what happened. ..

Offline takebacklakewood

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #65 on: October 30, 2016, 01:26:16 AM »

Offline asd

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2016, 01:40:26 AM »
cbc is 100 percent correct if you even mention BMG you will lose all credibility and come across as bitter. I don't think replacing M&M is the way to go they are both smart and capable and understand local and state politics and have been baalei chesed way before they  got involved in politics.I  think anyone as capable as them would be a fool to consider running. In my opinion the way to go is to keep the pressure on them and make them understand they will be under scrutiny from now on .

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2016, 08:03:24 AM »
Remember what happened with the Board of Ed? Everyone said great idea get rid of M I and bring in new guys who are sincere and will represent us and it will solve all of the problems. The new guys had a great idea- bring in a state monitor and the state will give us more money and solve all of our problems. Well the new guys who were supposed to solve all of our problems are gone and left us with a situation that we are suffering from every day. On the one hand taxes have shot up, and on the other, transportarion is a mess, not to mention a host of other problems. It turned out that getting rid of M I who knew the ropes wasn't such a brilliant idea after all. It took us from the frying pan into the fire. So, getting rid of current players and replacing them with new well meaning people is probably going to cause more problems than it solves. The only viable solution is to make the issue impossible for the committee or the powers that be to ignore by demonstrating that a huge segment of Lakewood is opposed to the current business as usual and will no longer stand for the status quo. It needs to be done respectfully but clearly and vociferously to make it clear that the interests of a few individuals can no longer be put ahead of the needs of thousands of Lakewoods residents.

cbc is 100 percent correct if you even mention BMG you will lose all credibility and come across as bitter. I don't think replacing M&M is the way to go they are both smart and capable and understand local and state politics and have been baalei chesed way before they  got involved in politics.I  think anyone as capable as them would be a fool to consider running. In my opinion the way to go is to keep the pressure on them and make them understand they will be under scrutiny from now on .
Exactly.

The vaad is comprised of very experienced and highly capable askonim. They have decades of experience doing this work. - Replace them with young whippersnappers wannabes, with zero experience, who could never be bothers to even try to seek sage advice from anyone, not to mention daas Torah,  you will get a failure of epic proportions. - AKA BOE


Developers for years have received preferential treatment by all the government bodies of Lakewood. - This was NOT done nefariously. It was always seen as legitimate "askonus" to make life easier for builders who were building decent quality homes for Lakewood (ostensibly all yeshiva people). Places like Westgate were legitimatly seen as a positive development that will make life easier for yeshiva people. (I argue that this was one hundred percent correct). Therefore Lakewood voted in good people who can get things approved.


Then the implosion of Lakewood happened. - Things got way out of hand when two things happened. 1) Lakewood became a non yeshiva centered, small contained town, as virtually all of Brooklyn's children realized that this is a place to live the good life cheap.. 2) the capitalist vulture developers and investors moved in hard to take advantage of opportunities to make bank.

The various zoning planning and government boards comprised of innocent ex yeshiva guys were totally blindsided by the above. - they were untrained, unprepared and basically had no idea how to deal with it. They didn't see the risks of all the massive development until it was way too late. The model always was to approve everything. They didnt realize that saying "no" to a proposal was good for Lakewood in the long run.
I am not condoning the irresponsible behavior. Just rationalizing it..



All we need to do now is educate and change mentality of the governing bodies. Getting the vaad on board to help with this mission would be amazing. Getting roshei yeshiva on board should be easy.

It just needs to be done properly and professionally. With the correct attitude.

Offline rs242

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2016, 08:22:43 AM »
Take bake Lakewood, if u are not smart enough to take CBC's advise u have no chance at getting anything done

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #69 on: October 30, 2016, 08:32:50 AM »
No Rav in town will back a campaign that isn't aligned with BMG.
Of course not. I would hope that any Rov would have at minimum a modicum of respect for yeshiva.

The question really is what happened to guys like you, that your opinions are the antithesis of what any Rov would think??!? 

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #70 on: October 30, 2016, 08:34:31 AM »
This comment strongly suggests that you are either affiliated with the vaad, or unaware of what/who the vaad is and does.
You my friend are the clueless one. What do you know of the vaad? Where do you get your information? A coffee room of some BP transplanted shteeble? Or HH's twitter account?

Offline takebacklakewood

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2016, 08:58:12 AM »
Exactly.
The vaad is comprised of very experienced and highly capable askonim. They have decades of experience doing this work. - Replace them with young whippersnappers wannabes, with zero experience, who could never be bothers to even try to seek sage advice from anyone, not to mention daas Torah,  you will get a failure of epic proportions. - AKA BOE

Developers for years have received preferential treatment by all the government bodies of Lakewood. - This was NOT done nefariously. It was always seen as legitimate "askonus" to make life easier for builders who were building decent quality homes for Lakewood (ostensibly all yeshiva people). Places like Westgate were legitimatly seen as a positive development that will make life easier for yeshiva people. (I argue that this was one hundred percent correct). Therefore Lakewood voted in good people who can get things approved.

Then the implosion of Lakewood happened. - Things got way out of hand when two things happened. 1) Lakewood became a non yeshiva centered, small contained town, as virtually all of Brooklyn's children realized that this is a place to live the good life cheap.. 2) the capitalist vulture developers and investors moved in hard to take advantage of opportunities to make bank.

The various zoning planning and government boards comprised of innocent ex yeshiva guys were totally blindsided by the above. - they were untrained, unprepared and basically had no idea how to deal with it. They didn't see the risks of all the massive development until it was way too late. The model always was to approve everything. They didnt realize that saying "no" to a proposal was good for Lakewood in the long run.
I am not condoning the irresponsible behavior. Just rationalizing it..

All we need to do now is educate and change mentality of the governing bodies. Getting the vaad on board to help with this mission would be amazing. Getting roshei yeshiva on board should be easy.

It just needs to be done properly and professionally. With the correct attitude.
You make some excellent and valid points.  The realization of the implosion is the reason that the committee and boards are so readily jumping on board with this. They realize we dug ourselves into a hole and that they need to start digging back out now.

Unfortunately though there are still very deep ties other the developers and I don't see those disappearing overnight. Therefore, I simply don't see the VAAD or AK being willing to make a sudden about face and stop backing the developers. They are free to reach out to me but I just don't see a viable path to real change by going to them and asking them nicely to change things . They knew about this problem without me and did nothing.

I agree that many of the public officials were simply going with the flow until now and that now this is a great opportunity for them to jump on the bandwagon of change and to start toughening up and standing up to developers.

Come to think about it, you make some excellent points there about the changing times in Lakewood.  Why not get up at the committee meeting Thurs Nov 10th and talk about that?

No need to associate yourself with any named movement. I'm not in this for PR or name recognition. I simply want something done to stop the overdevelopment.

Offline takebacklakewood

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2016, 09:25:36 AM »
Another point - I don't have the time or intention to turn this into a full time job. My hope is that by bringing up awareness, many people in Lakewood will be motivated to get involved and to take up the cause.

Those people can very well go to the Vaad and to the Roshei Yeshiva etc. I know someone who did speak to the Roshei Yeshiva about this (before I came around) and from what I understand they were not supportive.

This can't all be done by one person. It will only work if many of the residents of Lakewood are in agreement that there is a problem and all join in both on their own and as part of a group to change things.

Since you seem to agree that there is an implosion - why don't you go meet a Vaad member? See if they are receptive. If they agree and they take up the cause? Perfect. Less work for me to do!
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 09:36:58 AM by takebacklakewood »

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2016, 10:16:28 AM »
While reading this, I can't stop thinking of what is going on in Eretz Yisroel known as TAMA 38.

I've seen dwelling saturation double, triple, or even more, without the proper upgrade to surrounding infrastructure. It's very short sighted IMHO, but the government is hell bent on increasing housing availability, and is therefore biased in favor of the developers over long time residents (who often get a financial gain out of it, but subject themselves to hardship, risks, and as I said, inadequate infrastructure).

I think it is close to impossible to stop growth, I would suggest that you focus on making upgrade to SURROUNDING infrastructure a precondition to new developments, not just the infrastructure that directly affects the development.

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #74 on: October 30, 2016, 10:20:03 AM »
While reading this, I can't stop thinking of what is going on in Eretz Yisroel known as TAMA 38.

I've seen dwelling saturation double, triple, or even more, without the proper upgrade to surrounding infrastructure. It's very short sighted IMHO, but the government is hell bent on increasing housing availability, and is therefore biased in favor of the developers over long time residents (who often get a financial gain out of it, but subject themselves to hardship, risks, and as I said, inadequate infrastructure).

I think it is close to impossible to stop growth, I would suggest that you focus on making upgrade to SURROUNDING infrastructure a precondition to new developments, not just the infrastructure that directly affects the development.
Are you aware of how TAMA 38 works? Basically everyone ends up happy.