Topic Wiki

Get involved!

Stay Informed:
http://www.takebacklakewood.com
https://twitter.com/TakebackLKWD
Send a text to 40404 saying: " Follow @takebackLKWD " to get text updates.
Send an email to takebacklakewood@gmail.com saying " Subscribe " to get added to our email list for updates.

Attend:
Show up to Township Commitee, Planning, and Zoning board meetings. Speak up to stop the high density building!
All meetings are at the Township Building at 231 3rd Street. More info here.

Donate:
Take Back Lakewood is a grassroots campaign that has thrived despite little funding. With proper funding the campaign can reach far more people, hire a lawyer, and continue to force Lakewood Township to serve it's residents. Every dollar counts!
Donate Here

Other Links:
First Amendment Activist - Videos of meetings and a variety of township info related to meetings, applications, and township officials.
Lakewood Link - Lakewood News
Beware of Fake News

« Last edited by yuneeq on February 19, 2017, 11:48:01 PM »

Author Topic: Take Back Lakewood  (Read 93431 times)

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 2580
  • Total likes: 152
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2016, 10:48:15 AM »
Are you aware of how TAMA 38 works? Basically everyone ends up happy.
I am FULLY aware. Are you aware of the strain on SURROUNDING infrastructure.

It's better when they actually take down a few buildings or an entire block and then build ,but have you seen narrow streets get 5 and 6 story buildings, where there were single family houses or 2 story old buildings?

Offline takebacklakewood

  • Non-Elite Member
  • Join Date: Oct 2016
  • Posts: 10
  • Total likes: 48
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
  • Programs: Send a text to 40404 saying: Follow @takebackLKWD to get important text updates.
Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2016, 10:52:42 AM »
I think it is close to impossible to stop growth, I would suggest that you focus on making upgrade to SURROUNDING infrastructure a precondition to new developments, not just the infrastructure that directly affects the development.
Good point. Unfortunately, there is no money available to drastically upgrade infrastructure. I have made it a point to the township committee, that we need to pass an ordinance that forces developers to pay an impact fee that covers more than just the immediate roadway in front of the development. In Ocean County there is such an ordinance and developers have to pave and widen the entire street and pay for lights at the nearby intersections which Lakewood does not do.

While upgrading infrastructure is needed as well, all upgrades are worthless if we don't control the building. We can't let the committee think that a traffic study and some quick fixes will solve this problem and therefore the main focus must be first on the density and only once that is under control can we focus on infrastructure. 

As far as stopping the growth - I fully understand that if someone owns property they have the legal right to build on it. The township has no legal right to have a moratorium on all building. My main focus is on not allowing more than the allowable housing. If a lot fits 5 houses, don't put up 20 houses with dozens of variances. Also, in regard to large developments there probably are legal grounds for a moratorium. Even with no variances, I believe the township can pass ordinances calling for a halt to approving large development projects due to safety and traffic/infrastructure concerns.

A point I've often made - it's not like there is nowhere else to go. In Manhattan - you are limited in space and stuck on an Island. Therefore you need to build dense and build up. Lakewood is a contiguous land mass connected to Brick, Howell, Toms River and Jackson. Beyond those there is Lakehurst, Manchester, Lacey etc. There is the whole NJ!!!

I don;t care if 500,000 people want to join the area and move into all of the surrounding towns. There is simply no room and no need to allow everyone who wants to move to here to squeeze into Lakewood.

Fact: Until now all articles about Lakewood's growth glowingly talked about how by the year 2030 we will have 225,000 residents and the need to properly build up our town in a really dense way to accommodate that.
Fact: With 115K residents Lakewood is bursting at the seams. There is no way in the world possible to grow Lakewood to 225K residents even with all of the infrastructure upgrades that the committee could dream of.

Offline thaber

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 1863
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2016, 10:55:31 AM »
CBC et al make a good point.  The experience of M&M and the vaad is invaluable.  It's worth trying to work with them.  And if you're scared of losing your anonymity,  even when approaching with respect and not bashing the yeshiva,  then you're campaign won't get to far,  because it is leader less.
Do you think the yeshiva wants Brooklyn to move to Lakewood? Heck,  I remember when they would get upset that restaurants had seating!

Online Emkay

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 13805
  • Total likes: 215
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 34
    • View Profile
  • Location: Where I ought to be
Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #78 on: October 30, 2016, 10:56:30 AM »


I am FULLY aware. Are you aware of the strain on SURROUNDING infrastructure.

It's better when they actually take down a few buildings or an entire block and then build ,but have you seen narrow streets get 5 and 6 story buildings, where there were single family houses or 2 story old buildings?
please show me where a single case of a single family house turning into a 5-6 story building in this program.
I live in Jerusalem in a building that will prob be undergoing TAMA 38 shortly. I am not too happy and will likely move but I personally think it's genius.
Can you clarify what you mean by strain on surrounding infrastructure?


Offline takebacklakewood

  • Non-Elite Member
  • Join Date: Oct 2016
  • Posts: 10
  • Total likes: 48
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
  • Programs: Send a text to 40404 saying: Follow @takebackLKWD to get important text updates.
Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2016, 10:57:48 AM »
CBC et al make a good point.  The experience of M&M and the vaad is invaluable.  It's worth trying to work with them.  And if you're scared of losing your anonymity,  even when approaching with respect and not bashing the yeshiva,  then you're campaign won't get to far,  because it is leader less.
Do you think the yeshiva wants Brooklyn to move to Lakewood? Heck,  I remember when they would get upset that restaurants had seating!
Akerman reached out to me and offered to meet. I know De'lia is interested in meeting as well.  I've talked to various committee members of the Planning and Zoning Boards.

I'm happy to engage with M&M by phone but they don't respond to my emails.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 01:03:14 PM by jj1000 »

Offline Dawie

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 666
  • Total likes: 18
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: BLM
Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #80 on: October 30, 2016, 11:02:57 AM »

Yes, a certain realtor for imperial is one of the biggest issues as he is actively recruiting thousands of NY residents to move to Lakewood. While I can't stop him from doing things legally, I can stop him from getting variances and potentially stop approval of large developments at all which can reduce his ability to continue to do what he is doing.

this is by far the biggest issue, the question is who is backing him

LOL on the shopper not taking your letter v'hamyven yovin

Offline thaber

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 1863
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #81 on: October 30, 2016, 11:03:17 AM »
Akerman reached out to me and offered to meet. I know De'lia is interested in meeting as well.  I've talked to various committee members of the Planning and Zoning Boards.

I'm happy to engage with M&M by phone but they don't respond to my emails.
Maybe because they get a lot of anonymous hate emails?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 01:04:13 PM by jj1000 »

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 2580
  • Total likes: 152
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #82 on: October 30, 2016, 11:07:28 AM »
Good point. Unfortunately, there is no money available to drastically upgrade infrastructure. I have made it a point to the township committee, that we need to pass an ordinance that forces developers to pay an impact fee that covers more than just the immediate roadway in front of the development. In Ocean County there is such an ordinance and developers have to pave and widen the entire street and pay for lights at the nearby intersections which Lakewood does not do.
That is where you should concentrate your efforts.

When you start off in a combatative mode ("take back") you are drawing battle lines, and in a battle there are always winners and losers, and along the way unanticipated alliances get formed. You never know who will win (though I would guess that it is likely to be where the big money is) or who will end up as your friend or enemy.

I would suggest scrapping your "Take Back Lakewood" campaign, and start something along the lines of "Sensible Growth for Lakewood". By going that way, you are not positioning yourself AGAINST anyone, but FOR a good cause. If any of this makes sense to you, I suggest you stop and think strategically about that kind of a campaign, and launch it in a well thought out manner. Good luck!

P.s.
Infrastructure is not only about wider streets, traffic lights etc. It's also about making sure there are communal needs taken care of (shuls, mikvaos, shopping, etc etc).

Offline takebacklakewood

  • Non-Elite Member
  • Join Date: Oct 2016
  • Posts: 10
  • Total likes: 48
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
  • Programs: Send a text to 40404 saying: Follow @takebackLKWD to get important text updates.
Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #83 on: October 30, 2016, 11:09:45 AM »
Maybe because they get a lot of anonymous hate emails?
I get that and I don't envy their position.

That being said, if they really are interested in changing something than they know where to reach me. Forget about reaching me. I don't need to teach them what needs to be done. They promised to revamp the zoning and planning boards and they can do that with or without my guidance.

At this past weeks Township Committee meeting Akerman said that since Jan 1 2015 the Township Committee decided that they won't approve any more rezoning or variances on their committee. He said they did not realize that everyone would just circumvent them and run to the zoning board instead. Well well well, I guess it took me to point it out to them and now they finally know about it. 

Time to fix that now!

Offline thaber

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 1863
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #84 on: October 30, 2016, 11:13:30 AM »
That is where you should concentrate your efforts.

When you start off in a combatative mode ("take back") you are drawing battle lines, and in a battle there are always winners and losers, and along the way unanticipated alliances get formed. You never know who will win (though I would guess that it is likely to be where the big money is) or who will end up as your friend or enemy.

I would suggest scrapping your "Take Back Lakewood" campaign, and start something along the lines of "Sensible Growth for Lakewood". By going that way, you are not positioning yourself AGAINST anyone, but FOR a good cause. If any of this makes sense to you, I suggest you stop and think strategically about that kind of a campaign, and launch it in a well thought out manner. Good luck!

P.s.
Infrastructure is not only about wider streets, traffic lights etc. It's also about making sure there are communal needs taken care of (shuls, mikvaos, shopping, etc etc).
This they do. Every decent sized development has a shul (clubhouse) and many have mikvaos for shabbos at least

Offline takebacklakewood

  • Non-Elite Member
  • Join Date: Oct 2016
  • Posts: 10
  • Total likes: 48
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
  • Programs: Send a text to 40404 saying: Follow @takebackLKWD to get important text updates.
Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #85 on: October 30, 2016, 11:15:18 AM »
I would suggest scrapping your "Take Back Lakewood" campaign, and start something along the lines of "Sensible Growth for Lakewood". By going that way, you are not positioning yourself AGAINST anyone, but FOR a good cause. If any of this makes sense to you, I suggest you stop and think strategically about that kind of a campaign, and launch it in a well thought out manner. Good luck!
Excellent point which I will strongly consider. I do firmly believe though that if would have started this as a "Sensible Growth for Lakewood" campaign run by Chaim Yosepuf asking nicely for them to please change the way things are currently operating - I would have gotten nowhere.

The committeemen would not fear that they may lose their seats. This would not be a dominating topic of discussion at the meetings, and there would be nothing more than a few flowery statements and then back to business as usual. You do sometimes need more than just asking the committee to pretty please stop what they've been allowing for the past 15 years.

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 2580
  • Total likes: 152
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #86 on: October 30, 2016, 11:18:15 AM »
This they do. Every decent sized development has a shul (clubhouse) and many have mikvaos for shabbos at least
Excellent. Unfortunately where I live this has not been the norm.

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 2580
  • Total likes: 152
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #87 on: October 30, 2016, 11:22:58 AM »
please show me where a single case of a single family house turning into a 5-6 story building in this program.
I live in Jerusalem in a building that will prob be undergoing TAMA 38 shortly. I am not too happy and will likely move but I personally think it's genius.
I will probably be in Eretz Yisroel towards the end of Teves, if you are interested I can take you on a tour to show you what goes on.

Quote
Can you clarify what you mean by strain on surrounding infrastructure?
Have you ever heard of Urban Planning (or lack thereof)?


Offline takebacklakewood

  • Non-Elite Member
  • Join Date: Oct 2016
  • Posts: 10
  • Total likes: 48
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
  • Programs: Send a text to 40404 saying: Follow @takebackLKWD to get important text updates.
Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #88 on: October 30, 2016, 11:29:23 AM »
Have you ever heard of Urban Planning (or lack thereof)?
Oh we have a master plan committee. And they have a subcommittee devoted to housing density. Unfortunately, almost all of the members of the committee have special interests and profit from the high density building and have every motivation to make sure that it continues.

Feel free to watch the view of their meeting here which was deeply concerning:




Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 2003
  • Total likes: 215
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #89 on: October 30, 2016, 11:34:21 AM »
Feel free to watch the view of their meeting here which was deeply concerning:
Are you the one texting?  :)
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(