Author Topic: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families  (Read 8823 times)

Offline Deal Guy

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 4157
  • Total likes: 16
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 9
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #75 on: April 25, 2017, 11:03:45 AM »
I am curious to see if the new tax plan that will be floated out tomorrow will be bad for big families or not?
The one thing that keeps on annoying me is that they want to make taxes so simple that you should be able to do it on the back of a postcard. That silly line makes no sense, because the IRS does not want anyone doing taxes by pen and paper anymore. So why the need to get rid of all the exemptions if the computer calculates everything anyways?

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 4788
  • Total likes: 449
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #76 on: April 25, 2017, 11:14:09 AM »
I am curious to see if the new tax plan that will be floated out tomorrow will be bad for big families or not?
The one thing that keeps on annoying me is that they want to make taxes so simple that you should be able to do it on the back of a postcard. That silly line makes no sense, because the IRS does not want anyone doing taxes by pen and paper anymore. So why the need to get rid of all the exemptions if the computer calculates everything anyways?
To eliminate the need to calculate what goes on each of those lines.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 2999
  • Total likes: 201
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #77 on: April 25, 2017, 05:19:18 PM »
To eliminate the need to calculate what goes on each of those lines.
But that could be devastating to the economy, as it would put so many people, currently working full time on all of those lines, out of work.  :P

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 4788
  • Total likes: 449
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #78 on: April 25, 2017, 05:21:47 PM »
But that could be devastating to the economy, as it would put so many people, currently working full time on all of those lines, out of work.  :P
They can all work on transitioning people's tax plans.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 4788
  • Total likes: 449
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Deal Guy

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 4157
  • Total likes: 16
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 9
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #80 on: April 26, 2017, 02:11:24 AM »
To eliminate the need to calculate what goes on each of those lines.
The computer does a fine job right now.
You still need to enter all family members' name's, birthdays, and socials, as well as income. After that, the software does a fine job calculating all deductions and exemptions. There is no point to get rid of exemptions for each family member, and to treat small and large families alike with the exact standard deduction, just to simply say that it works on a postcard, when we don't even use postcards anymore.

Offline EJB

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 3936
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 13
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #81 on: April 26, 2017, 07:19:03 AM »
The computer does a fine job right now.
You still need to enter all family members' name's, birthdays, and socials, as well as income. After that, the software does a fine job calculating all deductions and exemptions. There is no point to get rid of exemptions for each family member, and to treat small and large families alike with the exact standard deduction, just to simply say that it works on a postcard, when we don't even use postcards anymore.

The more complex the code is, the more opportunity there is for loopholes.

Offline EJB

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 3936
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 13
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #82 on: April 26, 2017, 07:24:26 AM »
Why should a family of 7 pay much less taxes than a family of 4? (There are arguments both ways ) You're treating this like a negative byproduct of simplification. I say it's by design. This isn't hard to implement in the most simple tax  system. 

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 4788
  • Total likes: 449
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #83 on: April 26, 2017, 07:59:17 AM »
The computer does a fine job right now.
You still need to enter all family members' name's, birthdays, and socials, as well as income. After that, the software does a fine job calculating all deductions and exemptions. There is no point to get rid of exemptions for each family member, and to treat small and large families alike with the exact standard deduction, just to simply say that it works on a postcard, when we don't even use postcards anymore.
That is if your complexity is limited to family size.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Deal Guy

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 4157
  • Total likes: 16
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 9
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #84 on: April 26, 2017, 01:20:07 PM »
The more complex the code is, the more opportunity there is for loopholes.
That is if your complexity is limited to family size.
I agree that the more complex the code is, the more opportunity there is for loopholes. If they want to fix loopholes, then go ahead.
But, it is much harder and costly to support 1 child then to support 5 children. Therefore the larger family should be given a little more opportunity not to have to pay tax.
I can't justify raising the standard deduction for all married couples to 24,000, and then any penny you make above that to be taxed at 12%, since there would no longer be exemptions of $4,050 for each member of the family.

Currently a married couple with 1 child can make $24,750 tax free, while a married couple with 5 kids can make  $40,950 tax free.

So to simplify things and use the 10% bracket, that is a savings of around $1500 of tax on the $15000 of taxable income.

I think anyone will agree  that it costs more than $1500 a year to raise 5 children vs only 1 child no mstter what religion or race they may be from. So a parent with 5 children deserves to have more exemptions then a couple with 1 or 2 kids. I can't understand how it would be fair to eliminate exemptions.

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 4788
  • Total likes: 449
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #85 on: April 26, 2017, 01:38:28 PM »
I agree that the more complex the code is, the more opportunity there is for loopholes. If they want to fix loopholes, then go ahead.
But, it is much harder and costly to support 1 child then to support 5 children. Therefore the larger family should be given a little more opportunity not to have to pay tax.
I can't justify raising the standard deduction for all married couples to 24,000, and then any penny you make above that to be taxed at 12%, since there would no longer be exemptions of $4,050 for each member of the family.

Currently a married couple with 1 child can make $24,750 tax free, while a married couple with 5 kids can make  $40,950 tax free.

So to simplify things and use the 10% bracket, that is a savings of around $1500 of tax on the $15000 of taxable income.

I think anyone will agree  that it costs more than $1500 a year to raise 5 children vs only 1 child no mstter what religion or race they may be from. So a parent with 5 children deserves to have more exemptions then a couple with 1 or 2 kids. I can't understand how it would be fair to eliminate exemptions.
You totally missed my point. The complexity of the tax code has nothing at all to do with family size, exemptions, and standard deductions. Those can easily be included on a postcard sized return. The complexity is when you start dealing with business and partnerships as well as various investment vehicle and the like. There are plenty of people who need a box to mail a tax return.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline EJB

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 3936
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 13
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #86 on: April 26, 2017, 01:51:35 PM »
I agree that the more complex the code is, the more opportunity there is for loopholes. If they want to fix loopholes, then go ahead.
But, it is much harder and costly to support 1 child then to support 5 children. Therefore the larger family should be given a little more opportunity not to have to pay tax.
I can't justify raising the standard deduction for all married couples to 24,000, and then any penny you make above that to be taxed at 12%, since there would no longer be exemptions of $4,050 for each member of the family.

Currently a married couple with 1 child can make $24,750 tax free, while a married couple with 5 kids can make  $40,950 tax free.

So to simplify things and use the 10% bracket, that is a savings of around $1500 of tax on the $15000 of taxable income.

I think anyone will agree  that it costs more than $1500 a year to raise 5 children vs only 1 child no mstter what religion or race they may be from. So a parent with 5 children deserves to have more exemptions then a couple with 1 or 2 kids.i can't understand how it would be fair to eliminate exemptions.

I understand larger families have more expenses, but not everyone agrees that should mean they should pay less in taxes. That may not be a goal of the new tax code, whenever that happens.

Offline yelped

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 2121
  • Total likes: 55
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #87 on: April 26, 2017, 08:25:44 PM »
I understand larger families have more expenses, but not everyone agrees that should mean they should pay less in taxes. That may not be a goal of the new tax code, whenever that happens.
Well, having more children is beneficial for society and for the economy, so there's the reasoning behind it. Besides just being fair.

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 2785
  • Total likes: 15
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #88 on: April 27, 2017, 12:37:32 PM »
I understand larger families have more expenses, but not everyone agrees that should mean they should pay less in taxes.
If Tax is intended to account for means, than a larger family is relatively poorer than a single/couple with the same income

Offline yitzf

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 2475
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #89 on: April 27, 2017, 12:42:24 PM »
Well, having more children is beneficial for society and for the economy, so there's the reasoning behind it. Besides just being fair.
Absolutely. They should charge social security based on how many kids you have. The more workers you leave over to pay for your retirement the less you should pay.