Author Topic: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families  (Read 8822 times)

Offline ckmk47

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #90 on: April 27, 2017, 01:22:15 PM »
Absolutely. They should charge social security based on how many kids you have. The more workers you leave over to pay for your retirement the less you should pay.
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Offline EJB

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #91 on: April 27, 2017, 08:29:57 PM »
If Tax is intended to account for means, than a larger family is relatively poorer than a single/couple with the same income

I don't think this is completely true.

Offline gozalim

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #92 on: April 27, 2017, 09:10:27 PM »
I don't think this is completely true.
they are not necessarily exponentially poorer proportionate to the number of children (unless paying yeshivah tuition :P ) but they are somewhat poorer accounting just for food and clothing

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #93 on: September 27, 2017, 04:39:56 PM »
I was reading today that they plan to get rid of the $4050 exemption per person in the family, as i predicted.
But being that there will be alot of back and forth in congress regarding the tax bill, NOW IS THE TIME TO REACH OUT TO YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND SENATOR.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #94 on: September 27, 2017, 04:48:10 PM »
No exemption at all?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline Deal Guy

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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #96 on: September 27, 2017, 04:59:53 PM »
According to CNN, it's gone.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/27/news/economy/tax-reform-framework/index.html
They are doubling the standard deduction. So basically getting rid of child exemptions.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline hachover

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #97 on: September 27, 2017, 05:02:00 PM »
I was reading today that they plan to get rid of the $4050 exemption per person in the family, as i predicted.
But being that there will be alot of back and forth in congress regarding the tax bill, NOW IS THE TIME TO REACH OUT TO YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND SENATOR.

In concert with doubling the standard deduction, it evens out for average families. Obviously this plan is devastating to people with itemized deductions- losing the exemption, losing state tax deduction, plus whatever else may happen with the undefined changes to the bracket ranges. Who does it help? The very highest income earners (drop in tax rate), and the AMT earners (were not getting these deductions anyway, so the lower rates help), and the people of average incomes living in states with low taxes who probably don't itemize (i.e. Red States).

That's the beauty of it - the design is almost surgical in carving out crony groups and supporters for benefits. FTR, I detest the strategy. How taxation would be most fairly distributed is debatable, but political alignment and cronyism is definitely not one of the fair metrics.

they are not necessarily exponentially poorer proportionate to the number of children (unless paying yeshivah tuition :P ) but they are somewhat poorer accounting just for food and clothing

I think the calculated cost per year is estimated between $12,000 and $14,000 per child per year (for an average American family) based on dividing the "cost to raise a child" by 17 years. Which is significant for the average American family.
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.

Online aygart

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #98 on: September 27, 2017, 05:15:16 PM »
In concert with doubling the standard deduction, it evens out for average families. Obviously this plan is devastating to people with itemized deductions- losing the exemption, losing state tax deduction, plus whatever else may happen with the undefined changes to the bracket ranges. Who does it help? The very highest income earners (drop in tax rate), and the AMT earners (were not getting these deductions anyway, so the lower rates help), and the people of average incomes living in states with low taxes who probably don't itemize (i.e. Red States).

That's the beauty of it - the design is almost surgical in carving out crony groups and supporters for benefits. FTR, I detest the strategy. How taxation would be most fairly distributed is debatable, but political alignment and cronyism is definitely not one of the fair metrics.

I think the calculated cost per year is estimated between $12,000 and $14,000 per child per year (for an average American family) based on dividing the "cost to raise a child" by 17 years. Which is significant for the average American family.
AMT can often be a result of larger families.
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Offline hachover

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #99 on: September 27, 2017, 05:31:34 PM »
AMT can often be a result of larger families.

Yeah, but larger families are not that common. I don't believe they are a targeted group. It will be difficult to analyze whether they will be helped or hurt by this until the bracket ranges are spelled out. Most likely outcome is hurt.
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #100 on: September 27, 2017, 05:39:37 PM »
Yeah, but larger families are not that common. I don't believe they are a targeted group. It will be difficult to analyze whether they will be helped or hurt by this until the bracket ranges are spelled out. Most likely outcome is hurt.
I don't think anyone believes that they are being specifically targetted. It will also impact lower income families more because of that.
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Offline hachover

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #101 on: September 27, 2017, 05:56:19 PM »
I don't think anyone believes that they are being specifically targetted. It will also impact lower income families more because of that.

You don't think this is intentionally designed to increase the tax burden on the urban populations of states like NY, NJ, and CA?
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #102 on: September 27, 2017, 06:03:50 PM »
In concert with doubling the standard deduction, it evens out for average families.
I think that is far from accurate.
Currently, the standard deduction for a married couple is $12,600 plus $4050 for each person in the house. So with just one child, your deduction plus exemptions is $24,750. That would be similar to the $24000 they want to enact. But for families more than 1 child it would be devastating. For example, with 5 kids you currently can make $40,950 tax free ($4050 x 7 + $12,600) vs the $24,000 they want to enact.
That means you need to pay 12% tax on that $21,000 difference. That is $2520 of tax!
For more examples, see the first post on this topic.
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=68913.msg1604566#msg1604566

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #103 on: September 27, 2017, 06:04:18 PM »
You don't think this is intentionally designed to increase the tax burden on the urban populations of states like NY, NJ, and CA?
I know the spin will be to target minorities. They might be right.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline hachover

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #104 on: September 27, 2017, 06:28:26 PM »
I think that is far from accurate.

I was imprecise... the general analysis is tbat together with the tax brackets and rates it will be calibrated to make this a wash for the median family. At the individual level, of course it wont be hard to show that there is a difference between families with 1, 2, or 3 kids.
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.