Author Topic: Thank you Mr President for ...  (Read 13230 times)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #60 on: December 26, 2017, 09:12:18 AM »
Absolutely correct! They did it for totally self reasons! If they did it for benevolent reasons then management should be fired. They did it because they felt they would benefit from either the publicity, good will with the workers, or with the President. Probably a combination of the three. They gave the money away purely out of greed and out of their being profit driven!

That is why anyone who makes a statement like thisClearly has never owned or run a business. When I am most profit driven and greedy that is when I hire and make sure that my employees are well taken care of and happy.
Very well stated.

That is why the business tax breaks benefit ALL Americans, including (and possibly mostly) the middle and lower class (whatever those mean).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #61 on: December 26, 2017, 09:16:04 AM »
That is why anyone who makes a statement like thisClearly has never owned or run a business. When I am most profit driven and greedy that is when I hire and make sure that my employees are well taken care of and happy.
You should have stopped after your first statement. You seem to be clueless about the history of business in this country with this statement.
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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #62 on: December 26, 2017, 09:26:56 AM »
You should have stopped after your first statement. You seem to be clueless about the history of business in this country with this statement.
I know very well about how businesses have sometimes abused their employees. That is why the unions were formed and have an important place in this country. There needs to be a balance between the management and the workers. It shows more so when dealing with unskilled, typically blue collar, workers who can be easily replaced. Jobs which require skills, whether white or blue collar, are much less susceptible to these abuses and they would be counterproductive. No system is perfect. I can talk from my experience that when I keep my employees happy I benefit more than they do. There have been numerous times when employees have asked for a raise of a certain amount and I gave them more than they asked for. I got much more back in return. When an employee of mine was moving I gave him a bonus to help him with his move. It was a very worthwhile investment and I did it for totally selfish reasons.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #63 on: December 26, 2017, 09:33:02 AM »
I know very well about how businesses have sometimes abused their employees. That is why the unions were formed and have an important place in this country. There needs to be a balance between the management and the workers. It shows more so when dealing with unskilled, typically blue collar, workers who can be easily replaced. Jobs which require skills, whether white or blue collar, are much less susceptible to these abuses and they would be counterproductive. No system is perfect.
Do you feel there's a place for public unions too? Or should we assume that government are likely to respect workers needs, and the only purpose that public unions serve is extracting extraordinary contracts and benefits that wouldn't be available in the private sector, and would bankrupt any private business.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #64 on: December 26, 2017, 09:37:05 AM »
I know very well about how businesses have sometimes abused their employees. That is why the unions were formed and have an important place in this country. There needs to be a balance between the management and the workers. It shows more so when dealing with unskilled, typically blue collar, workers who can be easily replaced. Jobs which require skills, whether white or blue collar, are much less susceptible to these abuses and they would be counterproductive. No system is perfect. I can talk from my experience that when I keep my employees happy I benefit more than they do. There have been numerous times when employees have asked for a raise of a certain amount and I gave them more than they asked for. I got much more back in return. When an employee of mine was moving I gave him a bonus to help him with his move. It was a very worthwhile investment and I did it for totally selfish reasons.
Then you need to be on the Presidents business council because you have the right approach and I commend you. If all/most businesses took this approach I would be for this tax bill. The history of business in this country has not been what you do. You are unfortunately the exception to the rule. We have the necessary evils of the unions because businesses are the opposite of what you do. I now fully understand why you are for the tax bill. You base it on businesses will do as you do. History has shown us that is not going to happen.
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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #65 on: December 26, 2017, 09:41:46 AM »
Do you feel there's a place for public unions too? Or should we assume that government are likely to respect workers needs, and the only purpose that public unions serve is extracting extraordinary contracts and benefits that wouldn't be available in the private sector, and would bankrupt any private business.
Public unions have an issue that they have a bargaining chip other than their work which is their votes. They can vote in politicians who will follow their every whim and then there is no other side of the negotiating table. That leads those who are supposed to be representing the taxpayers and who should be their boss to instead be their accomplice. On the other hand, no you cannot blindly trust the government for anything. It leaves things very murky on how to deal with them. The vast amjority of government employees are skilled and have less of an abuse problem. I do not have a good answer about the public sector, but as the situation stands now there probably should not be public unions.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #66 on: December 26, 2017, 09:54:34 AM »
Then you need to be on the Presidents business council because you have the right approach and I commend you. If all/most businesses took this approach I would be for this tax bill. The history of business in this country has not been what you do. You are unfortunately the exception to the rule. We have the necessary evils of the unions because businesses are the opposite of what you do. I now fully understand why you are for the tax bill. You base it on businesses will do as you do. History has shown us that is not going to happen.
I have never worked as an employee, but my wife has and now my daughter does too. My wife has had employers who were abusive, but she was looking for a new job almost as soon as she started. My daughter did her research on working conditions when she was choosing where to take her job. I can't imagine that others do not do the same.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #67 on: December 26, 2017, 10:03:19 AM »
I have never worked as an employee, but my wife has and now my daughter does too. My wife has had employers who were abusive, but she was looking for a new job almost as soon as she started. My daughter did her research on working conditions when she was choosing where to take her job. I can't imagine that others do not do the same.
Would your business be considered a family/small business? If so IMHO that is a place with the best chance of being treated fairly.
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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #68 on: December 26, 2017, 10:10:05 AM »
Would your business be considered a family/small business? If so IMHO that is a place with the best chance of being treated fairly.
It would most definitely be considered a small business, but my wife has seen both ways from small businesses too. My daughter works for a larger business that is definitely a much more corporate structure. They are well known locally for treating their employees well.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #69 on: December 26, 2017, 10:17:54 AM »
It would most definitely be considered a small business, but my wife has seen both ways from small businesses too. My daughter works for a larger business that is definitely a much more corporate structure. They are well known locally for treating their employees well.
There are good and bad in all businesses. With large corporations their #1 goal is profits. They have a long history that is undisputable of screwing their workers to achieve that goal. They have no history of paying their employees more than they ask for like you have done.
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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #70 on: December 26, 2017, 10:27:21 AM »
There are good and bad in all businesses. With large corporations their #1 goal is profits. They have a long history that is undisputable of screwing their workers to achieve that goal. They have no history of paying their employees more than they ask for like you have done.
My #1 goal is profits too! That is my #2 and #3 goal as well. I understand that corporations are unlikely to offer workers more than they ask for since there is much less of a personal touch. Which corporate decision maker would even know that the employee is moving to give them a bonus for it. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who work for large corporations who feel that they are treated well. It probably depends on each department within the company as well. The distinction does need to be made between skilled and unskilled workers. The US economy has shifted away from unskilled labor over the last 50 or so years. The unskilled workers have their power in the unions. The vast majority of worker abuse and definitely the most egregious cases of it have been from before there were unions.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #71 on: December 26, 2017, 10:34:27 AM »
I guess we need to define what we mean by #1 goal.  :)
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Offline Baruch

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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #72 on: December 26, 2017, 10:35:47 AM »
1) Rubashkin
2) Gorsuch
3) Embassy in Jerusalem
4) This tweet: Why would Kim Jong-un insult me by calling me "old," when I would NEVER call him "short and fat?" Oh well, I try so hard to be his friend - and maybe someday that will happen!

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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #73 on: December 26, 2017, 01:20:50 PM »
It would most definitely be considered a small business, but my wife has seen both ways from small businesses too. My daughter works for a larger business that is definitely a much more corporate structure. They are well known locally for treating their employees well.
Not always so simple. I work for a company that is well known for treating employees as pawns on a chess board. When times are tough there are raise freezes and cuts. When times get better the company sticks with the reduced rate schedule put into place during hard times. I stick with this job because the hours and location work well for me but my experience and that of many others that I know is that the corporate structure will pocket this tax break as a windfall and I will get nothing out of it
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline ckmk47

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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #74 on: December 26, 2017, 01:54:12 PM »
With large corporations their #1 goal is profits. They have a long history that is undisputable of screwing their workers to achieve that goal.
Most of the history you'e referring to is not modern but ancient history.  People are more able to move away from a job that treats them badly. Unless the trade off is there in salary or perks. As in
I work for a company that is well known for treating employees as pawns on a chess board. When times are tough there are raise freezes and cuts. When times get better the company sticks with the reduced rate schedule put into place during hard times. I stick with this job because the hours and location work well for me but my experience and that of many others that I know is that the corporate structure will pocket this tax break as a windfall and I will get nothing out of it
You may not benefit directly, but businesses will hire more people,  who will make more widgets at reasonable cost that can be sold at reasonable prices, and you'll enjoy being able to get one that you can afford, too.
My favorite cause: cssy.org

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #75 on: December 26, 2017, 01:58:58 PM »
Most of the history you'e referring to is not modern but ancient history.  People are more able to move away from a job that treats them badly. Unless the trade off is there in salary or perks.
True not as much in modern history because we have unions to stop them. The mentality is still the same.
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Offline Work-for-ur-muny

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Offline Lamppost

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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #77 on: December 26, 2017, 03:13:36 PM »
I would love to have you on the other side of the table during contract negotiations. You are so naive.
Do you really think I am so stupid? You think I don't realize that they are doing this for selfish reasons (happy employees generate more profit)? But the point is that now they can remain with the same profit and the employees walk away with more money! Its a win/win.

Why is the fact that they are doing it for selfish reasons relevant here at all? Can you please explain that to Mr. Naive?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #78 on: December 26, 2017, 05:31:02 PM »
Do you really think I am so stupid? You think I don't realize that they are doing this for selfish reasons (happy employees generate more profit)? But the point is that now they can remain with the same profit and the employees walk away with more money! Its a win/win.

Why is the fact that they are doing it for selfish reasons relevant here at all? Can you please explain that to Mr. Naive?
No I don't think you are stupid. If I was sitting across the table that 1k bonus would be every year just like the tax cut is.
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Offline Lamppost

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Re: Thank you Mr President for ...
« Reply #79 on: December 26, 2017, 07:26:27 PM »
No I don't think you are stupid. If I was sitting across the table that 1k bonus would be every year just like the tax cut is.
Sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about