Author Topic: Keeping Up With The Kushners  (Read 36118 times)

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2017, 09:32:49 PM »
I think that JTZ's point is that if she is following the ruling of her rabbi it dues not show that her acceptance of mitzvos was deficient even if his ruling was incorrect.

This is a very good point.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2017, 09:34:20 PM »
And for all you know by them saying that the rabbi give them a heter to go in a car maybe it means  that the driver was opening the door for them and he did anything that is prohibited on Shabbos

That's a given, and still unlikely.

Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2017, 09:37:01 PM »
Let's get this clear, we are dealing with amira l'akum, not a d'orayso.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline chinagel

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2017, 09:37:26 PM »
And if shes not a convert she didn't trample on g-ds words. So we are giving her benefit of the doubt.........however practically everyone accepts her as a legitimate convert
whos that

Offline aro123

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2017, 09:44:05 PM »
whos that
Find me someone mainstream who will say that R hershel Schacters geirus is not legitimate bidieved

Offline chinagel

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2017, 09:48:40 PM »
Find me someone mainstream who will say that R hershel Schacters geirus is not legitimate bidieved
i didnt say it isnt all im asking is who said its good? i didnt even know he was the one who did it, where did u get that from?

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2017, 10:09:34 PM »
Let's get this clear, we are dealing with amira l'akum, not a d'orayso.

And furthermore it's possible he/she didn't even ask but was told so there was no Amira.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2017, 10:18:09 PM »
Didn't know that.
. רמב"ם הלכות אבל פרק א' הלכה י 

כל הפורשין  מדרכי  צבור והם האנשים שפרקו עול המצות מעל צוארן ואין נכללין בכלל ישראל בעשיית  המצות ובכבוד המועדות וישיבת בתי כנסיות ובתי מדרשות אלא הרי הן כבני חורין לעצמן [כשאר  האומות] וכן האפיקורוסין [והמומרים] והמוסרין כל אלו אין מתאבלין עליהן, אלא אחיהם ושאר  קרוביהם לובשין לבנים ומתעטפים לבנים ואוכלים ושותים ושמחים שהרי אבדו שונאיו של הקב"ה,  ועליהם הכתוב אומר הלא משנאיך ה' אשנא. 


Offline ExGingi

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2017, 10:26:43 PM »
Who will be the first to post a TR which includes this? And what's the best way to book? Chase UR?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2017, 10:27:38 PM »
And furthermore it's possible he/she didn't even ask but was told so there was no Amira.
It is also forbidden to have a non Jew do melachos for you, even without amirah.

Regardless, there were plenty of other issurim involved besides the car.

I'm just not even sure why we have to be splitting hairs over which halacha was violated or not. The fact is that Jared and Ivanka are culturally orthodox to a certain extent. I don't believe they publicly have ever claimed to keep halacha.
They obviously do participate in Shabbat and some degree of kosher. But that's about it.

Offline chinagel

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2017, 10:32:16 PM »
It is also forbidden to have a non Jew do melachos for you, even without amirah.

Regardless, there were plenty of other issurim involved besides the car.

I'm just not even sure why we have to be splitting hairs over which halacha was violated or not. The fact is that Jared and Ivanka are culturally orthodox to a certain extent. I don't believe they publicly have ever claimed to keep halacha.
They obviously do participate in Shabbat and some degree of kosher. But that's about it.
you dont have to go that far, he dated her before she ever "converted".

Offline Eliyohu

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2017, 10:33:46 PM »
i didnt say it isnt all im asking is who said its good? i didnt even know he was the one who did it, where did u get that from?
Paging @Tim T we went through this once and found documentation of her Geirus which was done by R Herschel Shacter, Chatzhel Lookstien (who holds you don't need kabulas mitzvos) and a chasidshe rav from monsey but don't recall his name of hand. Either way it was definitely a good Geirus...

Besides that if she got a heter that's it Noone is forcing you to accept her Ravs psak and any speculation of her not really getting one etc is regular lashon hara/motsie shem ra... even if you think she's a mumar...

It's a whole different discussion of what the psak is based on... and you deff don't know the security situation to speculate what they could have or couldn't have done...

Offline chinagel

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2017, 10:38:21 PM »
Paging @Tim T we went through this once and found documentation of her Geirus which was done by R Herschel Shacter, Chatzhel Lookstien (who holds you don't need kabulas mitzvos) and a chasidshe rav from monsey but don't recall his name of hand. Either way it was definitely a good Geirus...
chatzkel lookstein is definitely out of the mainstream as you yourself said. not sure why that means its definitely good
Besides that if she got a heter that's it Noone is forcing you to accept her Ravs psak and any speculation of her not really getting one etc is regular lashon hara/motsie shem ra... even if you think she's a mumar...

if i think shes a mumar theres no issur lashon hara.
 
It's a whole different discussion of what the psak is based on... and you deff don't know the security situation to speculate what they could have or couldn't have done...

i know they didnt have to go into a situation where they would have to be mechalel shabbos

Offline elit

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2017, 10:38:27 PM »
I just said you'd be as Jewish as she is if you do what she did.

Yes I am obligated to love and accept converts. I am also obligated to hate those who trample g-ds words.

Didn't know that.
Bc it ain't true. At least in the unequivocal manner that cbc presented it as

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2017, 10:54:05 PM »
Bc it ain't true. At least in the unequivocal manner that cbc presented it as
It's definitely unequivocally true. We can discuss the definition of trample though.