Author Topic: Parnassa question..  (Read 3647 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Parnassa question..
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2017, 07:59:38 AM »
We can open a whole new forum just for this one.
It's much less complicated than people make it out to be.

It's something we are supposed to live by, not some obscure philosophical concept.

Offline sky121

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 11724
  • Total likes: 168
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Parnassa question..
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2017, 08:01:25 AM »
It's much less complicated than people make it out to be.

It's something we are supposed to live by, not some obscure philosophical concept.
Something we are supposed to live by? Explain please. 
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18447
  • Total likes: 14626
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Parnassa question..
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2017, 08:03:06 AM »
We can open a whole new forum just for this one.
true, but I am asking it as a question on his statement that no matter what one dues it was decided on RH.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Parnassa question..
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2017, 08:07:01 AM »
Something we are supposed to live by? Explain please.
Levels of histadlus vs bitachon and peace of mind.
The limit of how concerned one should be about parnassah should be pretty clear.

IE. The thread question is in essence this. - How much histadlus and calculated efforts must one invest in earning a livelyhood, vs just do your thing and let gd worry about the rest..


Offline sky121

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 11724
  • Total likes: 168
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Parnassa question..
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2017, 08:08:14 AM »
Levels of histadlus vs bitachon and peace of mind.
The limit of how concerned one should be about parnassah should be pretty clear.

IE. The thread question is in essence this. - How much histadlus and calculated efforts must one invest in earning a livelyhood, vs just do your thing and let gd worry about the rest..
I don't think that was the question. I think that differs from what OP is asking and from the above question about when is 'free Wills decided?
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline lechatchileh ariber

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 838
  • Total likes: 26
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Parnassa question..
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2017, 08:45:43 AM »
That is true.
The question is, if you can afford to give the small raise (within reason), so that he will indeed get what was decreed for him on Rosh hashana, will it affect what was decreed for YOU on rosh hashana?
How could the same money be decreed for two different people
I don't sin, I give myself opportunities to repent.

Offline yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 8880
  • Total likes: 4047
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Parnassa question..
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2017, 08:54:16 AM »
Acc to rashi :ביצה טו and Mishna Berurah, Bi'ur Halacha 529:1 we are given a fixed amount of income but excessive spending can waste it (except for Shabbat and YT expenses). The question if giving a employee a raise is wasteful is a business question not a hashkafic question.
Visibly Jewish

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Parnassa question..
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2017, 08:59:02 AM »
Acc to rashi :ביצה טו and Mishna Berurah, Bi'ur Halacha 529:1 we are given a fixed amount of income but excessive spending can waste it (except for Shabbat and YT expenses). The question if giving a employee a raise is wasteful is a business question not a hashkafic question.
+1

Offline ckmk47

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 8032
  • Total likes: 1065
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: Parnassa question..
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2017, 10:42:26 AM »
But I think the chesed/ good will earned by being generous to an employee has to be part of the business calculation.
My favorite cause: cssy.org

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Parnassa question..
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2017, 11:38:05 AM »
But I think the chesed/ good will earned by being generous to an employee has to be part of the business calculation.
Of course it is.

Offline theduke

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 95
  • Total likes: 17
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Parnassa question..
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2017, 11:40:31 AM »
Can we stop calling it Chesed! you pay an employee how much they are worth to you and hopefully that is close to what the employee feels they are worth as well. No one wants to be a chesed case, maybe calling it goodwill is better but its really called paying for a service provided.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 68927
  • Total likes: 17312
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Parnassa question..
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2017, 11:58:24 AM »
The income determined on R"H/Y"K can remain in a form of potential (stuck in spiritual world like Atzilus/Briyah/Yetzira or Olam Haba) unless you have hishtadlus in working and davening daily for it to be drawn down in a physical form.

If an employee deserves a higher wage then I don't see how paying him more will affect your income. If anything paying a fair wage will help draw down your proper pre-determined income. If he doesn't deserve a higher wage then it's another story. Either way, it's not a chesed to pay a fair wage, it's menschlichkeit.

Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline yelped

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 10997
  • Total likes: 3999
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 43
    • View Profile
Re: Parnassa question..
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2017, 07:57:01 PM »
The income determined on R"H/Y"K can remain in a form of potential (stuck in spiritual world like Atzilus/Briyah/Yetzira or Olam Haba) unless you have hishtadlus in working and davening daily for it to be drawn down in a physical form.

If an employee deserves a higher wage then I don't see how paying him more will affect your income. If anything paying a fair wage will help draw down your proper pre-determined income. If he doesn't deserve a higher wage then it's another story. Either way, it's not a chesed to pay a fair wage, it's menschlichkeit.
That much I hope is clear to everyone here. I agree with everything else you said here, as well.

Offline Deal Guy

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 4966
  • Total likes: 131
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 9
    • View Profile
Re: Parnassa question..
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2017, 12:20:48 AM »
Basically the question comes down to, if you can afford to give the employee 5k more, but you are not necessarily willing to take that loss from your pocket, will you lose that 5k by giving it to him or will you earn that 5k another way?
(The question may even more simple in a case where a company has 500k of gross revenue, so bringing in 505k revenue instead in not such a big out of ordinary event.)

In other words, is an employee case in effect similar just as a company has many expenses that offsets your income, but what is determined on Rosh Hashana is the bottom line amount how much you will bring home. (and if you are supposed to make x amount of money, but have a lot of expenses that year, you will obviously earn more gross income to offset those expenses.) And the same thing would be with an employee, where if you have a little bit more of an expense, (because you chose to give him 5k more to pay him on the higher end of the range) you will earn 5k more in gross income to offset it,
OR, does the fact that you chose to give him 5k more, end up coming out of your bottom line because (unlike an expenses that you couldn't avoid), you could've avoided paying him the 5k more, yet you chose to pay him anyways.