DansDeals Forum > On The Road
Shabbos at A Hotel Master Thread
AsherO:
--- Quote from: u-no-me-:-) on May 19, 2011, 09:14:10 PM ---also if you relied on this heter and you were not an oneis being that you relied on this l'chatchila (i.e. going to a hotel which you were not forced and you knew before hand that you would'nt light) and possibly even if you were an oneis you are most probobly mechuyav to light an extra candle every week for the rest of your life.
--- End quote ---
That's for someone who forgot. If you made a mistake about what the halacha is or you relied on a heter/lenience, then I doubt that halacha applies.
U-no-me!:
--- Quote from: AsherO on May 20, 2011, 04:28:53 AM ---That's for someone who forgot. If you made a mistake about what the halacha is or you relied on a heter/lenience, then I doubt that halacha applies.
--- End quote ---
Yes you are probably correct. Let me clarify that 1. This "kenas" of lighting an extra candle does not apply to a man who forgot or who was posheia (unless according to some opinions if he's the one that always lights i.e. he does not have a wife. 2. The reason for this "kenas" is "keday shetehay zehirah b'kvod shabbos" in order that she should be careful in the kavod of shabbos, and therefore it does not have to do if she forgot but rather if she was posheia (mishna berura) and also " Kaparah al shenichshala" (pri megadim, and toras shabbos) as an atonement that she was nichsahl.
Therefore if she couldn't light because of an "oneis" i.e she was sick or was in jail (or according to shu"t be'er sarim in the name of reb eyashiv if she was stuck in traffic and there was no way to light or according koveitz m'beis levi in the name of R' vosner if the clock was going slow and she didn't realize it was broken) than she does not have to light an extra candle but anything else she was doing and because of that there wasn't enough time to light it is not called a "oneis".
In our case if she went to the hotel and she knew beforehand she wouldn't be able to light she is probably a posheia and therefore that is part of the kenas.
Now if she turned on the light in the room "SPECIFICALLY" lkovod shabbos, than there might be room to be lenient but is not so simple.
U-no-me!:
There is a big machlokes haposkim if you are allowed to make a bracha on a light bulb as opposed to candles.
The ones that do not allow it are Shu"t Pekudas Eliezer siman 22, Shu"t mashmia shalom siman 12, shu"t har tzvi volume 2 siman 114, shmiras shabbos kehilchoso chapter 43 hearah 22 in the name of R' shlomo zalman,.
And the ones that do allow it are Shu"t mahasham volume 8 siman 37, shu"t dvar halacha siman 39 among others also see Achiezer volume 3 siman 60 which talks about it. But even the ones that are matir it is on the condition that it is turned on specifically l'kovod shabbos. The bracha would be the regular bracha.
Another machlokes between the ones that are matir is if you are even allowd to make a bracha on a fluorescent light bulb as apposed to a regular light bulb.
Another point is that if you would be in a hotel in E"Y you definitely wouldn't make a bracha on the light since it is made through chillul shabbos (shu"t Az Nidbaru and shu"t Yabia Omer).
Also even the ones that are matir, it might only be if you are having your seuda by the light for the reason being "Shraga B'thara may mihanya" chulin 60b meaning a candle where there is already light what good is it (and would therefore be a bracha levatala). But if you would be eating there you might be able to do it (being that there is a separate machlokes of the reason of why we light.)
If anyone wants me to expound any more or the reasons behind anything, I'll try to do it.
AsherO:
--- Quote from: u-no-me-:-) on May 21, 2011, 06:19:56 PM ---Yes you are probably correct. Let me clarify that 1. This "kenas" of lighting an extra candle does not apply to a man who forgot or who was posheia (unless according to some opinions if he's the one that always lights i.e. he does not have a wife. 2. The reason for this "kenas" is "keday shetehay zehirah b'kvod shabbos" in order that she should be careful in the kavod of shabbos, and therefore it does not have to do if she forgot but rather if she was posheia (mishna berura) and also " Kaparah al shenichshala" (pri megadim, and toras shabbos) as an atonement that she was nichsahl.
Therefore if she couldn't light because of an "oneis" i.e she was sick or was in jail (or according to shu"t be'er sarim in the name of reb eyashiv if she was stuck in traffic and there was no way to light or according koveitz m'beis levi in the name of R' vosner if the clock was going slow and she didn't realize it was broken) than she does not have to light an extra candle but anything else she was doing and because of that there wasn't enough time to light it is not called a "oneis".
In our case if she went to the hotel and she knew beforehand she wouldn't be able to light she is probably a posheia and therefore that is part of the kenas.
Now if she turned on the light in the room "SPECIFICALLY" lkovod shabbos, than there might be room to be lenient but is not so simple.
--- End quote ---
So if someone relies on a kula/heter he is a posheia and the machmirim will bo koneis him? That makes no sense at all.
txtmax4:
--- Quote from: Dan on May 19, 2011, 02:35:10 PM ---I guess on a plane though you would just switch on 8 reading lights going across the 777 for menorah too?
--- End quote ---
And the "Shamosh" would be the pilot's light? ;D
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