Author Topic: NY Post Article On Satmar Couple's Open Marriage (Interesting Articles Split)  (Read 5278 times)

Online mmgfarb

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"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline Bukboy

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Derech, typically referring to Shabbos, Kashrus, TH, Davening etc. Someone could technically do all those and still use drugs recreationally. And not all OTD people use drugs, hence I say they're mutually exclusive.
Someone can technically use drugs and drive home safely, Does drugs cause car accidents? Derech is a road, Which requires being in control while you drive on that road and if you're not in control it can and will most likely cause the driver behind the wheel to make stupid mistakes 

Offline koplonko

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Someone can technically use drugs and drive home safely, Does drugs cause car accidents? Derech is a road, Which requires being in control while you drive on that road and if you're not in control it can and will most likely cause the driver behind the wheel to make stupid mistakes
Nice

Offline churnbabychurn

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Many people would define "doing drugs" as a deviation from the "Derech". It is a deviation from ישובו של עולם, and regardless of שמירת התורה והמצוות could be considered OTD.

I definitely agree that not all OTD people use drugs (I would hope that most don't), but that doesn't make them "mutually exclusive" which in English means "cannot co-exist" AFAIK.
Addiction affects on the derech people just as much as off the derech people. They are not related.

Happens to be the case that the vast majority of on the derech people don't have exposure to drugs.... Until they break a leg, twist an ankle, and become narcotic addicts...

Offline ExGingi

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Addiction affects on the derech people just as much as off the derech people. They are not related.

Happens to be the case that the vast majority of on the derech people don't have exposure to drugs.... Until they break a leg, twist an ankle, and become narcotic addicts...
Where did I mention addiction?

As far as I understand, "doing drugs" has one purpose - to get "high" and escape reality. It is counter to any imaginable "Derech".

I have suffered severe pain a couple of times, and was given opioid pain killers. And while I had a friend who is a pain management doctor who would prescribe for me almost anything I asked for, I never even finished the first prescription given. I took it once or twice in order to be able to sleep, after two nights without any, but as soon as I was able to cope without (b.h. My symptoms had subsided) I didn't touch the stuff. I don't enjoy being on a chemical "high".

Offline churnbabychurn

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Where did I mention addiction?

As far as I understand, "doing drugs" has one purpose - to get "high" and escape reality. It is counter to any imaginable "Derech".

I have suffered severe pain a couple of times, and was given opioid pain killers. And while I had a friend who is a pain management doctor who would prescribe for me almost anything I asked for, I never even finished the first prescription given. I took it once or twice in order to be able to sleep, after two nights without any, but as soon as I was able to cope without (b.h. My symptoms had subsided) I didn't touch the stuff. I don't enjoy being on a chemical "high".

You say that doing drugs is to escape reality, and is therefore something an on the derech person would never do...

Plenty of frum ppl have very difficult "realities". It's incorrect to assume they would never tell try to "escape.

Second, good for you. It doesn't mean other on the D Jews are not vulnerable.

Offline ExGingi

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You say that doing drugs is to escape reality, and is therefore something an on the derech person would never do...

I think we might be getting into semantics her, but doesn't one have to be on the Derech first, in order to go OFF of it?

Plenty of frum ppl have very difficult "realities". It's incorrect to assume they would never tell try to "escape.

Unfortunately, very true. However, there are ways to deal with it that don't involve a
chemical "high".

Please don't get me wrong. I am not judging anyone. I started off by telling a story to refute the claim that OTD has to do with עם הארצות. In telling some facts, drugs were mentioned, which led to the current discussion of whether drugs have anything to do with OTD. I expressed my opinion that drugs are by definition OTD - or maybe we can say that תחילת נפילה - ניסה. Escaping reality is (or could be) the beginning of going OTD.