Topic Wiki

I'm going to try to make an index of the questions and answers here. I'm thinking of writing a short summary of the question/topic then writing the reply number, date, author (in case someone deletes a post it should still be findable). And writing locations of relevant replies on that question.

Question 1- Why did Hashem want to create the world? (Reply #1, 8/29/17, Starstruck)

See reply #78 8/31/17 churnbabychurn. #26 8/30/17 chbochur. #53 8/30/17 starstruck. #65 8/30/17 chbochur.

Question 2 - Why does beis din have to give punishments, can't Hashem give it? (#77 8/31/17 starstruck)

See reply #99 9/01/17 zh Cohen. #147 9/06/17 starstruck.

Question 3 - Why isn't there a sefeika d'yoma by Yom Kippur (but by Sukkos there is)? (#88 9/01/17 Dan)

See pages 7,8,9,10

Question 4 - Why is it נוח לו לאדם שלא נברא יותר משנברא if the whole purpose of the world is to be meitiv? ( #112 9/01/17 chbochur)

See #146 9/05/17 aygart and quoted conversations.


Author Topic: Jewish Philosophy  (Read 4781 times)

Online rs242

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Re: Jewish Philosophy
« Reply #150 on: September 06, 2017, 08:31:56 PM »
We coming out that OP is not a missionary?

Offline a mirrer

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Re: Jewish Philosophy
« Reply #151 on: September 07, 2017, 07:05:43 AM »
If made erroneously in a legitimate way it's fine.
Chazal specifically learn from the posuk אתם אפילו טעות
אתם אפילו טעות is davka that בית דין was מקדש not that the bnei hagola made a mistake what day בית דיןwas מקדש

Offline a mirrer

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Re: Jewish Philosophy
« Reply #152 on: September 07, 2017, 07:10:16 AM »

Lo ADU Rosh was long before we had a set calendar.
but it was not set in stone back then since the גמרא יומא says that  ביוה׳׳כ שחל להיות בע׳׳ש כהן שדעתו יפה אוכלו חי

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Jewish Philosophy
« Reply #153 on: September 07, 2017, 08:23:42 AM »
אתם אפילו טעות is davka that בית דין was מקדש not that the bnei hagola made a mistake what day בית דיןwas מקדש
did actually read the tosfos I took the picture of?

Online aygart

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Re: Jewish Philosophy
« Reply #154 on: September 07, 2017, 08:38:09 AM »
but it was not set in stone back then since the גמרא יומא says that  ביוה׳׳כ שחל להיות בע׳׳ש כהן שדעתו יפה אוכלו חי
דף?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline a mirrer

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Re: Jewish Philosophy
« Reply #155 on: September 07, 2017, 08:50:03 AM »
did actually read the tosfos I took the picture of?
whoops the picture didn't load so I didn't see it

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Jewish Philosophy
« Reply #156 on: September 07, 2017, 10:46:57 AM »
דף?
It's pretty clear from the whole sugiya that lo adu rosh is not an absolute rule.

It's something bd tried hard to make happen, but not at all guaranteed. There could be other factors.

Online aygart

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Re: Jewish Philosophy
« Reply #157 on: September 07, 2017, 10:53:37 AM »
It's pretty clear from the whole sugiya that lo adu rosh is not an absolute rule.

It's something bd tried hard to make happen, but not at all guaranteed. There could be other factors.
True. I just couldn't find what he quoted.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Starstruck

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Re: Jewish Philosophy
« Reply #158 on: September 11, 2017, 07:56:25 PM »
If we would fully understand the greatness of Hashem and how much good He does for us without it being earned we would definitely do mitzvos for "free"

אין לגבי משה מילתא זוטרתא היא

I would like to point out something. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The feeling of wanting to do something for no reason just because you love someone so much is an emotion that Hashem created. So basically Hashem created this world to reward us, yet made it possible for us to not want the reward. That isn't a contradiction its just interesting to note.

Another interesting thing to note is that our initial love for Hashem is all based on what He gives us and does for us in this world (this is based on my next paragraph that understanding Hashem's greatness isn't a reason to love Him). If he didn't give us those things then we wouldn't have the love to do the mitzvos for "free". And it's not caused by the fact that He can make us live painful lives, because that isn't a reason to love someone. It's because He gave us the joys of life.

When you write that if we would understand the greatness of Hashem and all the things He gives us without deserving it we would do mitzvos for "free". I could understand that by the fact that He gives us so much without deserving it, but why would I love Hashem if I understood His greatness? Where do you see such a concept in our world, that you know it's true? For example, I don't love Trump or any other public figure anymore just because he's great.


Offline Starstruck

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Re: Jewish Philosophy
« Reply #159 on: September 11, 2017, 08:03:21 PM »
It's said that רשעים get rewarded in this world for all the mitzvos they do so they shouldn't get any reward in olam haba. How does that shtim with the fact that we say that any bit of olam haba is much more pleasurable than all the pleasures in this world combined?

Online aygart

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Re: Jewish Philosophy
« Reply #160 on: September 11, 2017, 08:04:22 PM »
For example, I don't love Trump or any other public figure anymore just because he's great.
That is your example of greatness?

In monarchies there were those who loved their King without the king having done anything for them.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Avrumi#1

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Re: Jewish Philosophy
« Reply #161 on: September 11, 2017, 08:30:14 PM »
It's said that רשעים get rewarded in this world for all the mitzvos they do so they shouldn't get any reward in olam haba. How does that shtim with the fact that we say that any bit of olam haba is much more pleasurable than all the pleasures in this world combined?

Simple. What is it that they value? Their actions clearly indicate that they value the materialism of this world and not eternal spiritually. It's only natural, just and right that they should get paid and rewarded in the currency that they value. They have conditioned themselves to be unable to appreciate a deeply spiritual reward.

Anyhow, why would you like to know why, when why would you want to go to the Y, when you can still ask why there should be a Y.

Offline Starstruck

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Re: Jewish Philosophy
« Reply #162 on: September 12, 2017, 09:38:52 AM »
Simple. What is it that they value? Their actions clearly indicate that they value the materialism of this world and not eternal spiritually. It's only natural, just and right that they should get paid and rewarded in the currency that they value. They have conditioned themselves to be unable to appreciate a deeply spiritual reward.

That still doesn't answer how you can value the spiritual currency for far less than it's worth.

My rebbi answered this question once. I didn't hear everything he said so I can't tell you it clearly. But I remember the outline of his answer.

He said that every physical thing in this world has a spiritual dimension to it and thereby has a direct effect on things in the next world. (Some people like to compare it to quantum entanglement, which I personally think is not comparable). So some how all the good things that a rasha gets are the physical state of the spiritual things he was supposed to get.

That's all that I remember. Obviously this needs much more explanation but hopefully it can shed some light.

Offline chbochur

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Re: Jewish Philosophy
« Reply #163 on: September 13, 2017, 12:06:10 PM »
I'm still going to go with how I understand the mesilas yesharim.

The reason I was created is to receive that goodness from Hashem by doing what He wants me to do. Thereby causing my neshama to be misdabeik in the shechina. And eventually reaping the benefits in olam haba (NOT gan Eden).

If I want to do it just to get the reward, that's not so ok but I would still have what's rightfully mine. But it would be much better if I did what was expected of me just out of pure love for Hashem without expecting anything in return. ( This is where I don't understand what I'm saying completely. I could understand the concept of being selfish but over here with what am I supposed to love Hashem so much that I should want to do the mitzvos for "free"? A parent's love technically doesn't either make sense it's just there for survival purposes. This question is based on the assumption that mitzvos are technically meaningless to Hashem and it's just a way to get your neshama to be misdabeik in the shechina.)

sorry i didnt get back for a few days been a little busy here.

In Chabad there is something called the 12 pesukim and mamorei chazal, (basically, the Rebbe wanted every person, especially children to know them by heart and understand their meaning and message. These pesukim and mamorei chazal; include the possuk Torah tzivah a second shma yisroel a third bichol dor vador chayav Adam... Etc). One of the 12 is a line in Tanya "vizeh kol ha'odom visachlis briyosoi uvrias kol haolamos elyonim visachtonim lihyos lo dirah zo batachtonim" in other words (based on what we explained before) a person and all of the creation (including the whole seder hishtalshilus - as we know it) was created solely for the purpose of creating a dirah for Hashem down here in the lowest of worlds (as we explained last time for this was hashems taiveh). How do we cause for this dirah? this is by doing the ratzon of Hashem.

 

There is a quote of the alter rebbe that he would periodically say when he was in a 'dveikus' (a state that he was so to say in another world being 'doivek' to elokus) (actually the words were made into an eighth day song) "ich vil ze gar nist ich vil nit dayn gan eden ich vil nit dayn olam haboah... ich vil mer nit tz dich alain" loosely translated: i don't want anything (you have to offer) I don't want your gan eden nor do I want your olam haboah... I want nothing but you alone (it's based off the possuk of vimcha lo chafatzty - see hayom yom 18 kilseiv). in other words, there is a level we are supposed to strive for that we do Hashem's will just to be close to hashem and to gain nothing for our self, not olam haboah or even gan eden.

 there is another saying brought down from the rebbe rashab that in the mishnah al tihiuyu ka'avodim hamishamshim es harav al minas likabeil pras ela hevu ki'avodim hamishamshim es harav shlo al minas likabeil pras, the rashab says to change from ela hevu ki'avodim hamishamshim es harav shlo al minas likabeil pras to ela hevu ki'avodim hamishamshim es harav  al minas shelo likabeil pras, we are trying to attain this level where we are doing simply because that is the ratzon of hashem and not for any side reason or personal gain (not even olam haboah).


there is a debate (even in Chabad) does Hashem 'need' our mitzvos, but all agree that it is in his best interest that we fulfill the mitzvos and by doing so we are bringing the shchinah down here and help build his dirah in this (lowest) world.


you mentioned (in a different comment) that our love for Hashem is based off what he gives us or how we benefit from Hashem, in Tanya (perek yud zayin) the alter rebbe brings an example of a candle that the wick is always trying to go up even though by doing so it will be extinguished, it does so because it wants to go back to its source. the nimshal is the nishamah (which the possuk says 'ner hashem nishmas Odom') that even though it won't be able to survive down here still wants to go up to its source in heaven which is atzmusoi yisbareich (and not the way it is covered over in a physical form. and although this is the nature of a person, it is sometimes covered over and cannot be felt by the person, and by learning about elokus you reveal this inner desire. (the reason why the neshamah doesnt actually depart and become one with atzmus is that it still has an Avodah to do down here (and it would be selfish to not fulfill its mission down here). so it's really  not about us or how Hashem makes us feel or what Hashem gives us, it's something higher then all that and higher then our intellect. (see tanya there to fully understand this concept.)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 01:54:42 PM by chbochur »