Hairgate

[aygart]

Could be. But numerous schools and Rabbeim make bad decisions about lots of things.    Sometimes a school and or Rabbi can just be 'wrong' and making bad decisions. You know? It's an option.

It is an option, but so is the possibility that you are the one who is wrong.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Here, The "issue" is a lack of modesty if a girl's hair is too long, as it attracts attention...

I thought just the opposite would be true.

[sky121]

I gave no opinion on that, butYou have a right to have different standards, but just as you wish for people to respect yours you should respect the standards of others.

It's not a standard. It's not even a thing. It's not religion.  And I respect people. I would have nothing but respect for any individual I met with different beliefs or ideas or thoughts.

But I also don't believe this is a healthy environment for anyone to be a good Yid.

And I also know that whatever were told, we tend to go along with.   And this is the environment those teachers were raised in also.

There is very little religion there. And it makes me sad. That's all.

[sky121]

It is an option, but so is the possibility that you are the one who is wrong.

Always. But it's way easier for you to believe me wrong than a school or a Rabbi. Which is why they hold a lot more power and responsibility and it becomes much more of a danger.   


  Anyways. I can see where your head is.


I respect all.  I understand how people are raised. The values they are taught.

It just makes me sad sometimes. I feel bad.

I just wish people had to a chance to live in positive environments.  That's all.





.

[sky121]

One thing I can tell you is that this is not in class on a school day. They are not wearing uniforms and the girl's schools didn't start yet. But that's okay, we've come to expect people to bash Lakewood first and find out the facts later.

You argue that people like to bash  Lakewood. Or that it's not a school. Or that people are so quick to judge.   You wouldn't have to do that if whatever they were doing was something you believed in.  Because then it wouldn't matter if it was Lakewood or somewhere else. Or if it was a normal school day or not.

[aygart]

You argue that people like to bash  Lakewood. Or that it's not a school. Or that people are so quick to judge.   You wouldn't have to do that if whatever they were doing was something you believed in.  Because then it wouldn't matter if it was Lakewood or somewhere else. Or if it was a normal school day or not.

I have no issue with them having standards about hair length. Had they embarrassed them in front of their class like the letter writer accused them of I would have had a problem with it but that was a lie.

[sky121]

I have no issue with them having standards about hair length. Had they embarrassed them in front of their class like the letter writer accused them of I would have had a problem with it but that was a lie.

Do we know one way or another what happened ?



And that's fine. I respect that. And I should hope so.


I happen to have issue with the whole lesson anyways but yes that's my personal opinion.

If a girl needs to have her hair measured to be tznius, you didn't teach it right IMO. 

Anyways I am sure we'll hear more about this.

[aygart]

Do we know one way or another what happened ?



And that's fine. I respect that. And I should hope so.


I happen to have issue with the whole lesson anyways but yes that's my personal opinion.

If a girl needs to have her hair measured to be tznius, you didn't teach it right IMO. 

Anyways I am sure we'll hear more about this.

We know that it was not in class since they were not wearing uniforms and school did not start yet

[hvaces42]

My 2 cents. They have right to set standards as they wish. Hair is definitely a tznius issue. They could have done this one by one behind a curtain and with a checkbox on a paper approach (too long or good) showing the mother if it is too long and moving on.

Who cares about the sheitel length.
 

[sky121]

We know that it was not in class since they were not wearing uniforms and school did not start yet

What does a school have to do with it? It doesn't  meant that adult figures didn't embarrass some kid. Like I said I am sure we'll hear more soon.

It def looks like people of some sort of authority ..



Either way...

[aygart]

My 2 cents. They have right to set standards as they wish. Hair is definitely a tznius issue. They could have done this one by one behind a curtain and with a checkbox on a paper approach (too long or good) showing the mother if it is too long and moving on.

Who cares about the sheitel length.

Why do they need a curtain if they are alone in a room?

[Ygold]

The Internet and whatsapp is just one sick disgusting place!
 It's a place where anyones reputations can be destroyed on a whim (and you may be next) based on absolutely nothing, no facts, just the evil which lies inside some sick human beings.
Did anyone even bother getting the other side of the story?!?! Does anyone even care?!?! Or do we, as usual, just sit and pass judgemnt from our comfortable armchairs and destroy some (perhaps innocent) lives and reputations, based on a 23 second video clip, without any background information whatsoever?!
Just because some online tabloid, masquerading as a news site, with a nice Jewish sounding name, posts a letter from some disgruntled parent, doesn't mean it needs to be published or shared. And whoever took this video and made it go viral, I have no idea how they can stand before their creator on R"H.

And let's say for arguments sake, that within the short 23 second video, we got the whole entire story and it's as bad as it looks. Now you tell me what's worse the "child abuse" of measuring their hair and "shaming" them, which is terrible, or the much more public sharing and destroying and publicly shaming of the teachers and school on the internet and whatsapp??

Reminds me of this

[aygart]

Retarded that there is a hair length standard for elementary children, but non for the mom's.

For the mom's it's fine to have an excessively long shaitel. But not for beis yaakov students.

So contradictory, confusing and wrong.

It is much more difficult to enforce standards on mothers and much more questionable if it is the right thing to do. To have and enforce standards of students at the school is much simpler.

[sky121]

The Internet and whatsapp is just one sick disgusting place!
 It's a place where anyones reputations can be destroyed on a whim (and you may be next) based on absolutely nothing, no facts, just the evil which lies inside some sick human beings.
Did anyone even bother getting the other side of the story?!?! Does anyone even care?!?! Or do we, as usual, just sit and pass judgemnt from our comfortable armchairs and destroy some (perhaps innocent) lives and reputations, based on a 23 second video clip, without any background information whatsoever?!
Just because some online tabloid, masquerading as a news site, with a nice Jewish sounding name, posts a letter from some disgruntled parent, doesn't mean it needs to be published or shared. And whoever took this video and made it go viral, I have no idea how they can stand before their creator on R"H.

And let's say for arguments sake, that within the short 23 second video, we got the whole entire story and it's as bad as it looks. Now you tell me what's worse the "child abuse" of measuring their hair and "shaming" them, which is terrible, or the much more public sharing and destroying and publicly shaming of the teachers and school on the internet and whatsapp??

Reminds me of this

I agree with you to a certain extent.

Mostly because we have no clue exactly what's going on.  And. Also because I find it awful to post their pictures around like that, though in fairness they did block out their faces. At least on the site.  I just keep wondering who took the video.

Though if we want to hold off on judgement I'd say wed have to hold it off on that person as well. Maybe they were recording because they thought it was funny. And harmless. Or maybe because they were concerned.    Either way we all know how easy it is for things to go viral.

Either way I agree with you that seeing that leaves me with a slightly bad taste and all.


If the school and teachers or whomever is in the video are ok with what they did they can stand up for themselves at this point. I feel bad for them regardless. But it's the only option at this point. Besides for staying quiet.

[David Smith]

If it was not on a school day then the entire premise of the letter that the girls were embarrassed in front of their class is a malicious lie.

These are zhidden we're talking about. Haredis to boot. Calm down.

[hvaces42]

Why do they need a curtain if they are alone in a room?

Did you watch the video? It was done בפני עם ועדה

[aygart]

I agree with you to a certain extent.

Mostly because we have no clue exactly what's going on.  And. Also because I find it awful to post their pictures around like that, though in fairness they did block out their faces. At least on the site.  I just keep wondering who took the video.

Though if we want to hold off on judgement I'd say wed have to hold it off on that person as well. Maybe they were recording because they thought it was funny. And harmless. Or maybe because they were concerned.    Either way we all know how easy it is for things to go viral.

Either way I agree with you that seeing that leaves me with a slightly bad taste and all.


If the school and teachers or whomever is in the video are ok with what they did they can stand up for themselves at this point. I feel bad for them regardless. But it's the only option at this point. Besides for staying quiet.

One thing we do know is that someone posted it publicly misrepresenting it as having been girls embarrased in front of the class. I was immediately able to see 2 very obvious ways to show that it was untrue. To lie is improper. If you want ot disagree with them measuring it at all go ahead. You did that and have the right to. To lie is inexcusable.

[sky121]

We're always trying to be so dan lkaf zechus. Which is generally a good thing. And smart. Especially when it comes to some random pics on the internet. But sometimes that gets in the way of a real situation. I haven't seen this video. But someone did. And someone was concerned and upset enough to write about it. That's all.

Do I agree how it was done? Maybe not.
I honestly don't know. In today's day and age with schools it's hard to get anyone to listen. Sometimes 'exposing' things is the way to go.

[aygart]

Did you watch the video? It was done בפני עם ועדה

I did not. I only saw the pictures posted there, but either way this was not in class and who was there is a big question as well as what exactly they were being shown (unless that is clear in the video). The exact setting is also a question.The schools here do not call in the girls a week before school to have them all chech their hair length. Anyone who represents it as such is a malicious liar.

[Ygold]

Though if we want to hold off on judgement I'd say wed have to hold it off on that person as well. Maybe they were recording because they thought it was funny. And harmless. Or maybe because they were concerned.    Either way we all know how easy it is for things to go viral.

You have a point there, though someone definitely posted it to Whatsapp and someone took the video without anyones knowledge or consent in a private setting. But either way, there is one HUGE difference when it come to passing judgement, in one case you have peoples pictures and voices and school name plastered across the net along with who knows how many negative comments, on the other hand, in regards to the video, no one knows who took the video and there is no consequence to them or to their reputation.
(Can you imagine what those 2 teachers are feeling tonight, I pity the one responsible for this)