Author Topic: Hurricane Irma  (Read 9537 times)

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Re: Hurricane Irma
« Reply #315 on: September 12, 2017, 11:08:50 PM »
Why do I think there is more to the story?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/oak-brook/news/ct-dob-hurricane-vehicle-stolen-tl-0914-20170912-story.html
Both vehicles were left unlocked with the keys inside, and the belongings of the woman who had driven from Florida were left in her vehicle, police said.
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Offline chevron

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Re: Hurricane Irma
« Reply #316 on: September 12, 2017, 11:20:36 PM »
The news was full of heavy scary words like catastrophic, deadly, devastating.

I dont think it would have killed many in a direct hit but yes it would be damaging, how does evacuating help

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Re: Hurricane Irma
« Reply #317 on: September 12, 2017, 11:32:27 PM »
The news was full of heavy scary words like catastrophic, deadly, devastating.

I dont think it would have killed many in a direct hit but yes it would be damaging, how does evacuating help
The biggest killer is storm surge. Water can rise 15-20ft if not more and completely flood coastal cities and towns. The evacuation is so that people don't drown or get stranded.
They also evacuate mobile homes, as they are the first to go. If you see some of the images from the keys, lots of mobile homes were completely blown around.

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Re: Hurricane Irma
« Reply #318 on: September 13, 2017, 12:14:15 AM »
The biggest killer is storm surge. Water can rise 15-20ft if not more and completely flood coastal cities and towns. The evacuation is so that people don't drown or get stranded.
They also evacuate mobile homes, as they are the first to go. If you see some of the images from the keys, lots of mobile homes were completely blown around.

+1. Evacuation was absolutely necessary. There was a significant risk of a catastrophic hit on Miami, causing building collapses, water in higher floors of buildings, fires, etc. You're saying it wasn't too bad, but there is a huge difference between 70mph impacts and 140mph impacts, and there was a significant risk of the latter when they needed to decide on an evacuation. Keep in mind that they can't wait until the storm is 6hr away before they make evacuation rules, since no one will be able to then get out.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Hurricane Irma
« Reply #319 on: September 13, 2017, 09:45:37 AM »
5 dead in a Hollywood, FL nursing home due to no power/AC http://www.miamiherald.com/news/weather/hurricane/article173019111.html
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Offline thaber

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Re: Hurricane Irma
« Reply #320 on: September 13, 2017, 10:12:02 PM »
5 dead in a Hollywood, FL nursing home due to no power/AC http://www.miamiherald.com/news/weather/hurricane/article173019111.html
and interestingly, all the people who said the guy who runs the nursing home in Harvey with people floating around should be taken out back, are all quiet.

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Re: Hurricane Irma
« Reply #321 on: September 13, 2017, 10:48:10 PM »
and interestingly, all the people who said the guy who runs the nursing home in Harvey with people floating around should be taken out back, are all quiet.
I said
That if the people in charge can't handle the responsibilities that come along with caring for these people's lives then they shouldn't be in this business.
And I still stand by that. But I was told
You obviously have no clue in this parsha. Stop before you sound even more foolish.
So hey, what do I know.

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Re: Hurricane Irma
« Reply #322 on: September 14, 2017, 04:34:55 AM »
and interestingly, all the people who said the guy who runs the nursing home in Harvey with people floating around should be taken out back, are all quiet.
I've actually been quite busy today and still on the office (I didn't even read about the story yet, just heard a few different versions of it on the radio in the car while driving to a few different meetings, which ironically enough, one was with OEM which is the central part of the city government arm here in NYC that takes control of ALL services and tells everybody what to do, where to go, etc).
Once again, I don't know the details but being that I was part of a similar disaster five years ago and actually operating a LTC facilty, I could actually see certain scenarios where the operator (or owner) has ZERO fault.
For example (and this is not a far fetch possibility at all)-
Maybe they had power up until the previous night and it was a relatively cool night. They hydrated the residents, opened windows (which BTW due we physically cant open windows more than 6-12"), made extra rounds, monitored often, and had a plan to either get the power back up in the morning or evacuate then. Maybe there was physically no way to evacuate them since millions of people were evacuating, roads were clogged, shelters were full, hotels were overbooked and they were TOLD by their respective government agencies to shelter-in-place? Moving 100+ elderly sick people is not the same as going on a camp trip where you could order 2 or 3 buses, pick up and go. They would need dozens of ambulettes/ambulances to transport, they would have to take all supplies, medications, equipment, and food with them (very little chance any place they go would have any of that, considering the mass evacuations of the general public and other facilities), medical charts also have to go, you need to make sure that you supply enough staff (and on average it takes 1 employees to care for 1 patient, which includes just aides and nurses) 24/7 around the clock, and more. If you really want to know more details and get to know what it takes, I might have a position for you (no kidding) but my point is that you have absolutely no clue.
So as I  said previously, I don't know 1)the facilities that we are discussing (location, demographics of residents, etc. which all make a huge difference) 2)how things are in regards to government and done in other states, but if the storm was anything like Sandy and things are run similar to how they are run here in NY (which BTW I believe that the NYC OEM is way ahead of similar agencies in other cities so I could just imagine how much more unorganized and chaotic it is over there), I could def see it being made for what its not by people who have no clue.

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Re: Hurricane Irma
« Reply #323 on: September 14, 2017, 04:45:53 AM »
I saidAnd I still stand by that. But I was toldSo hey, what do I know.
And I stand by what I said (see above post)! So we're even!
The difference is that I'm in the trenches and know what it takes while ur sitting on the sidelines spewing garbage, which might sound good and tough (hence that's why the media and certain government officials jump to conclusions and say the same nieyrishkite like you) but it's not reality. My offer still stands. If this seriously interests you and you want to see if this might be a future for you, I might have an internship available. (For all I know, you're a 70 year old retired guy! But even then I would take you. This way if you do ever come to a facility such as mine, you'll appreciate it that much more instead of being one of those  grumpy old men that always complain and think they could do things better!)

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Re: Hurricane Irma
« Reply #324 on: September 14, 2017, 08:34:15 AM »
Zero Traffic on the way back into Miami... All good here

Offline jj1000

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Re: Hurricane Irma
« Reply #325 on: September 14, 2017, 08:34:47 AM »
I've actually been quite busy today and still on the office (I didn't even read about the story yet, just heard a few different versions of it on the radio in the car while driving to a few different meetings, which ironically enough, one was with OEM which is the central part of the city government arm here in NYC that takes control of ALL services and tells everybody what to do, where to go, etc).
Once again, I don't know the details but being that I was part of a similar disaster five years ago and actually operating a LTC facilty, I could actually see certain scenarios where the operator (or owner) has ZERO fault.
For example (and this is not a far fetch possibility at all)-
Maybe they had power up until the previous night and it was a relatively cool night. They hydrated the residents, opened windows (which BTW due we physically cant open windows more than 6-12"), made extra rounds, monitored often, and had a plan to either get the power back up in the morning or evacuate then. Maybe there was physically no way to evacuate them since millions of people were evacuating, roads were clogged, shelters were full, hotels were overbooked and they were TOLD by their respective government agencies to shelter-in-place? Moving 100+ elderly sick people is not the same as going on a camp trip where you could order 2 or 3 buses, pick up and go. They would need dozens of ambulettes/ambulances to transport, they would have to take all supplies, medications, equipment, and food with them (very little chance any place they go would have any of that, considering the mass evacuations of the general public and other facilities), medical charts also have to go, you need to make sure that you supply enough staff (and on average it takes 1 employees to care for 1 patient, which includes just aides and nurses) 24/7 around the clock, and more. If you really want to know more details and get to know what it takes, I might have a position for you (no kidding) but my point is that you have absolutely no clue.
So as I  said previously, I don't know 1)the facilities that we are discussing (location, demographics of residents, etc. which all make a huge difference) 2)how things are in regards to government and done in other states, but if the storm was anything like Sandy and things are run similar to how they are run here in NY (which BTW I believe that the NYC OEM is way ahead of similar agencies in other cities so I could just imagine how much more unorganized and chaotic it is over there), I could def see it being made for what its not by people who have no clue.
Or more likely there was negligence, they were understaffed, nurses messed up their vital checks, they didn't stock up enough water and non-perishable food in advance, and they will be sued and settle for many millions.

A hard job isn't an excuse for death. This has huge settlement written all over it.
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Hurricane Irma
« Reply #326 on: September 14, 2017, 08:35:08 AM »
Zero Traffic on the way back into Miami... All good here
Are people just not going back yet?
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Re: Hurricane Irma
« Reply #327 on: September 14, 2017, 08:42:08 AM »
Or more likely there was negligence, they were understaffed, nurses messed up their vital checks, they didn't stock up enough water and non-perishable food in advance, and they will be sued and settle for many millions.

A hard job isn't an excuse for death. This has huge settlement written all over it.
Def a possibility and the investigations will determine that. And if there was negligence, the responsible parties should be held accountable to the fullest extent allowed. My point is that until all facts are known, I would reserve judgement since as somebody who's been there done that to a degree (BH I never had situations like this), I could definitely see variables which would make the provider completely innocent.

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Re: Hurricane Irma
« Reply #328 on: September 14, 2017, 08:45:11 AM »
The case in Florida definitely sounds more negligent than Houston. In Houston there was flooding and not much to do about it other than evacuate which has its own issues. Dehydration is solvable.
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Hurricane Irma
« Reply #329 on: September 14, 2017, 08:48:43 AM »
The case in Florida definitely sounds more negligent than Houston. In Houston there was flooding and not much to do about it other than evacuate which has its own issues. Dehydration is solvable.
This. It's hard to imagine a situation where they will have an excuse for not providing water often enough.
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