Author Topic: "One Of Us"  (Read 2962 times)

Offline sky121

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2017, 08:52:56 AM »
To show a few individuals living their truth, they absolutely needed to deride and denigrate tens of thousands of other individuals living their truth.

They are just focusing in on a specific negative behavior (and truth) of many chassidish communities.

They are just showing the truth for plenty of people who try leaving the Chassidish community.    Again, this is not a movie about the Chassidish community. It's about what it's like for many people who try leaving.  Is it pretty? No. Does it show Jews in a good light? Def not.

As a Yid it doesn't feel good having our faults in the spotlight.
And I do personally look as them as faults. I am aware that there are many others out there who feel the people treating those who wish to leave in awful ways are justified. 





"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline elit

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2017, 08:53:47 AM »
Do you have any source for real numbers? It seems to me that everyone prefers there not be. Some to downplay the issue and some to blow it up.
anyone who is involved with this population will tell you that you are wrong... it's obviously a hard thing to get real data on...

Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2017, 08:53:53 AM »
Sorry but you're very wrong.
Do you have any source for real numbers? It seems to me that everyone prefers there not be. Some to downplay the issue and some to blow it up.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline sky121

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2017, 08:54:48 AM »
anyone who is involved with this population will tell you that you are wrong... it's obviously a hard thing to get real data on...

It also happens to not be the main focus of this specific documentary.

"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline elit

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2017, 08:54:49 AM »
This is purely conjecture.
which part?

Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2017, 08:54:57 AM »
anyone who is involved with this population will tell you that you are wrong... it's obviously a hard thing to get real data on...

I've spoken to some and I guess they were nobodies.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2017, 08:55:46 AM »
which part?
Everything past the first ten words at best.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline elit

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2017, 08:57:40 AM »
I've spoken to some and I guess they were nobodies.
don't know who.you have spoken but I find it impossible that some one who works with the chassidic OTD population told you that there isn't  a significant percentage of abuse. it's absolutely impossible.

Offline elit

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2017, 09:01:53 AM »
Everything past the first ten words at best.
obviously it wasn't  an empirical fact but its a very logical statement that I have heard from experts in the field and is born out by way too much anecdotal evidence.
anyway what would be the motive of a frum ehlirch people who dedicate their  lives to saving these kids to exaggerate the numbers?. OTOH what motive do community leaders who do not want this issue discussed or addressed have in downplaying it

Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2017, 09:09:39 AM »
don't know who.you have spoken but I find it impossible that some one who works with the chassidic OTD population told you that there isn't  a significant percentage of abuse. it's absolutely impossible.
I am sure there are "signficant numbers" depending on how you define it and never said otherwise. OTOH that may not be anywhere close to the amounts that some would like to make it out to be to advance their agenda. Those who i spoke to also felt that while there is definitely an issue which needs to be resolved, there are many who blow it out of proportion to advance their own agenda and that these people are doing a disservice to the real victims.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline elit

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2017, 09:12:50 AM »
I am sure there are "signficant numbers" depending on how you define it and never said otherwise. OTOH that may not be anywhere close to the amounts that some would like to make it out to be to advance their agenda. Those who i spoke to also felt that while there is definitely an issue which needs to be resolved, there are many who blow it out of proportion to advance their own agenda and that these people are doing a disservice to the real victims.
what are these agendas they are advancing?  And how do they do a disservice to the victims by making it sound like a bigger issue

Offline sky121

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2017, 09:14:39 AM »
I am sure there are "signficant numbers" depending on how you define it and never said otherwise. OTOH that may not be anywhere close to the amounts that some would like to make it out to be to advance their agenda. Those who i spoke to also felt that while there is definitely an issue which needs to be resolved, there are many who blow it out of proportion to advance their own agenda and that these people are doing a disservice to the real victims.
You may be right. But we can all agree that there is an issue. And instead of discussing if the problem is bigger or smaller it seems more beneficial to discuss the problem and what can be done to start actually helping the issue at hand, helping the victims, and helping create a society where those victims feels safe speaking out.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2017, 09:16:15 AM »
what are these agendas they are advancing?  And how do they do a disservice to the victims by making it sound like a bigger issue
There are many who use this issue to bash the community. That puts people who can resolve things appropriately on the defensive and makes it more difficult for them to do so since they are concerned that anything they do to resolve will be used to destroy. This is part of the answer to this.
OTOH what motive do community leaders who do not want this issue discussed or addressed have in downplaying it

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline sky121

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2017, 09:19:28 AM »
There are many who use this issue to bash the community. That puts people who can resolve things appropriately on the defensive and makes it more difficult for them to do so since they are concerned that anything they do to resolve will be used to destroy. This is part of the answer to this.

That's going to happen either way. People are going to use the issue to bash the community no matter what you say. And do you HONESTLY think trying to convince them the problem is smaller than they think is going to help?   If anything it makes it come across that your energy is all going into defending your community where if you really want to help your community you would work on helping the issue.

And just as a side note, if those bashing the community because of issues like this heard you say "you're right, we have an issue, let's work on fixing this" they may be a whole lot less inclined to focus on the bashing and start working together to start creating solutions.

When you defend a community that clearly has this major issue, it doesn't look to others that you're listening to the problems and wanting to be part of the solution.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline sillypainter

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2017, 09:49:21 AM »
I look at all characters in the movie as displaying their own story. Every Jewish Family has their own way of doing things, so if one family is at fault or even 3 it does mean that there is a huge problem. There are trouble makers and bad people in every group.