Author Topic: The Brothers Who Bought South Africa (Interesting Article Split)  (Read 637 times)

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2017, 11:46:12 AM »
I don't know how old @Dawie was or @Yehuda57 was when the flag was changed. However, is it possible that the difference in attitudes stems from living in the RSA pre 1994 vs just learning about it as part of (recent) history (which one might have even lived through as a toddler?

Yes and no. I was born in '85 (9 years old in '94). There is zero nostalgia in the old flag for me. BUT, even if there is some nostalgia in the flag for someone older, anyone who waves it knows full well what it symbolizes and that it is racist and offensive. No one waves that flag in South Africa unless they are trying to be offensive.

I dont necessarily disagree with him
I disagree with "That neighbors did not realize doesn't make it less racist."
If i dont mean it to be racist, (which cant be said for the nazi flag) and they dont know it to be racist then how is it racist? except that now the Boer flag has been made in to an inherent symbol of racism. (and the fact that now everyone (at least the left) is looking to be outraged at at every nonsense)
Cubans fly Cuban flags, Venezuelans fly their flag....... their countries are far worse than RSA

South Africa HAS a flag for you to wave without choosing one that is offensive and racist. I've seen the flag many times in America (at weddings and other random places) it has never been the old flag. That one would choose the incorrect flag to show patriotism speaks volumes.

And Cuba and Venezuela? Really? Those are the examples you choose to compare to Apartheid? It's almost like you think Apartheid was only an economic disenfranchisement of blacks.
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Offline Dawie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2017, 11:47:17 AM »
Was אאע״ה racist?
wanting to marry your own kind is racist?
Maybe the part about not wanting to live in the same country as Lot.......

Offline Dawie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2017, 11:50:47 AM »
And Cuba and Venezuela? Really? Those are the examples you choose to compare to Apartheid? It's almost like you think Apartheid was only an economic disenfranchisement of blacks.
Cuba and Venezuela make people disappear by the 100's and have gulags and jails for anyone who disagrees
the RSA had it too but on a much small scale, John Vorster Sq for one  (IMHO)

Online ExGingi

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2017, 11:51:06 AM »
On a Monday?
אי בעית אימא hangover ואי בעית אימא מוקדם

Offline Dawie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2017, 11:52:33 AM »
. No one waves that flag in South Africa unless they are trying to be offensive.

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2017, 11:52:47 AM »
who would be the older one? ;)
I would probably take that title  ;)  (though, as mentioned, my connection to the RSA was a long distance one - and was very weak during the 90s which might explain some things).

Offline Dawie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2017, 11:55:27 AM »
I would probably take that title  ;)  (though, as mentioned, my connection to the RSA was a long distance one - and was very weak during the 90s which might explain some things).
Between Yehuda and I

Online ExGingi

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2017, 11:55:50 AM »
wanting to marry your own kind is racist?
How about refusing a shidduch due to race?

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2017, 11:56:48 AM »
Cuba and Venezuela make people disappear by the 100's and have gulags and jails for anyone who disagrees
the RSA had it too but on a much small scale, John Vorster Sq for one  (IMHO)
Fair enough.

Why? Because it is so very blatantly racist, and everyone there knows it. So if someone chooses to wave it in the USA, it is only because they think they can get away with it, not because it is any less racist.
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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2017, 11:57:30 AM »
Between Yehuda and I
How dare you phrase that in proper Queen's English over here? You should have of ended that question with "me" around here. ;)

Offline Dawie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2017, 12:05:06 PM »
How about refusing a shidduch due to race?
depends on the reason
Back to the Afrikaner's for a second
they believe they were the second coming of the Israelite's and the Trek was G-d taking them in the desert to the promised land and took the bible very literally. they looked to the Bible for every answer. Black were the children of Ham and therefore as you said, cursed, and slaves. They didn;t (dont) hate the blacks, they just believe that this is G-ds given mandate and the blacks must submit to be slaves as it is G-ds will.
So not for an Afrikaner to marry a black would be a problem as you said בני ברוך ואתה ארור ואין ארור מתדבק בברוך
Their main problem was they didn't know how to deal with the "coloured" issue and that was their downfall, they went waaaay overboard in trying to keep their "race" pure and blamed it on the Bible
(Michener explains it very well) 

Offline Dawie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2017, 12:08:41 PM »
Why? Because it is so very blatantly racist, and everyone there knows it. So if someone chooses to wave it in the USA, it is only because they think they can get away with it, not because it is any less racist.
i agree with you for the most part, but i think that while it may have been lets say, naughty a couple years ago, it's become a much more blatant symbol of racism. as it now shows i want to be an alt right supremacist and has nothing to do with RSA

Online aygart

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2017, 12:11:33 PM »
i agree with you for the most part, but i think that while it may have been lets say, naughty a couple years ago, it's become a much more blatant symbol of racism. as it now shows i want to be an alt right supremacist and has nothing to do with RSA
Ahhh, so now it is even worse than just the SA apartheid. Now, besides the racism from that, it has a new white supremacist meaning as well?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Dawie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2017, 12:25:47 PM »
Ahhh, so now it is even worse than just the SA apartheid. Now, besides the racism from that, it has a new white supremacist meaning as well?
yes, thanx to Dylan roof
http://time.com/3926593/charleston-killer-flags/
"The apartheid-era South African flag represents one of the worst periods of that country’s history. Under apartheid, which lasted from 1948 to 1994, the majority black population, along with ethnic Indians, Asians, and those of mixed-race were denied their basic rights. The white minority, which ruled the country, enforced the laws with brutal efficiency and violence. “As a South African, you see that flag and it sets alarm bells ringing,” says Christopher Charles Nicholas, a concierge in Cape Town. “To us, it brings back all the horrors of that time. Ninety-nine percent of South Africans hate that flag.” The remaining one percent, he adds, are the people who want apartheid back — South Africa’s own white supremacists."

Not sure what to make of that quote, except that its what Yehuda would agree is 100% correct
i think it's a bit overblown ...alarm bells? 99%?

Online aygart

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2017, 12:30:00 PM »
yes, thanx to Dylan roof
http://time.com/3926593/charleston-killer-flags/
"The apartheid-era South African flag represents one of the worst periods of that country’s history. Under apartheid, which lasted from 1948 to 1994, the majority black population, along with ethnic Indians, Asians, and those of mixed-race were denied their basic rights. The white minority, which ruled the country, enforced the laws with brutal efficiency and violence. “As a South African, you see that flag and it sets alarm bells ringing,” says Christopher Charles Nicholas, a concierge in Cape Town. “To us, it brings back all the horrors of that time. Ninety-nine percent of South Africans hate that flag.” The remaining one percent, he adds, are the people who want apartheid back — South Africa’s own white supremacists."

Not sure what to make of that quote, except that its what Yehuda would agree is 100% correct
i think it's a bit overblown ...alarm bells? 99%?

So now I think I understand whatthe two of you are saying. You are saying that, while it is racist, it is not as bad as it has now been made to be. @Yehuda57 is saying that who cares, the fact is that it is racist even without this added portion.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.