Author Topic: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)  (Read 8125 times)

Online ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #405 on: March 25, 2018, 11:51:51 AM »
That is not contradictory to what I wrote.
Was not trying to say it was.
To say that G-d made a miracle because he is a fan of that team is belittling.
My point is I/we have no idea why miracles happen.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #406 on: March 25, 2018, 11:53:53 AM »
Do miracles really happen?

"No. 11 Loyola's unbelievable run with Sister Jean at the spiritual helm, there's been no shortage of surprises this year."
Miracles do happen.

FTR, I have no idea what the quote you bring means, but I have been reading some of the discussion that ensued.

My .02:

G-d uses (in general) three ways to run his world.

1. Nature, which was created by G-d, with its infinitely complex set of rules and interactions. And which G-d decided to create and run the world most of the time, in a way that could conceal his hand, up to the extent of a Stephen Hawking denying G-d's existence. 
2. Miracles which are enclothed in nature, which means that for whatever reason G-d decided to tilt nature a certain way (out of various possibilities) which might not be obvious to be miraculous, but upon proper examination one might realize a divine intervention in a set of otherwise seemingly natural occurrences.
3. Miracles which appear in a way that is obvious to anyone, clearly going counter to what would be anticipated as a natural set of occurrences.

Regardless of which one of the methods above is used, it is all G-d's doing.

Our yearning for the ultimate redemption, is for a time where category 1 will no-longer conceal G-d's hand, but will actually reveal it to all in the most obvious way to all. That is why it is called in Hebrew גאולה, which contains all the letter of גולה - exile, with one added letter, an Aleph, which refers to G-d. The world will exist just as we know it today, but rather than conceal G-dliness, it will reveal it everywhere.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #407 on: March 25, 2018, 11:55:54 AM »
Can you explain?
If you believe in 100% free will like me everything happens because of the choices we make. A miracle can change that choice we make.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #408 on: March 25, 2018, 11:56:29 AM »
Was not trying to say it was.My point is I/we have no idea why miracles happen.
Then we are close to the same page. He could make a team miraculously win in order to reward someone who is undeserving of a more substantive reward or the like
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #409 on: March 25, 2018, 12:00:17 PM »
That is not contradictory to what I wrote. To say that G-d made a miracle because he is a fan of that team is belittling.
Chassidus teaches us that divine providence exists everywhere, including in a falling leaf.

I won't go into the "fan" discussion now, but G-d definitely has a purpose in everything that happens. It might not be the team, it might be the current discussion that ensued as a result, or it might be something totally different. We don't know. What we do know is that G-d runs the world in the way he sees fit, and it is up to us to choose to acknowledge it.

As mentioned above, I also know nothing about this team or what might have happened that CM might be referring to as a miracle. I don't see how it really matters if it's seen as a miracle or not.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline aygart

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #410 on: March 25, 2018, 12:02:04 PM »
Chassidus teaches us that divine providence exists everywhere, including in a falling leaf.

I won't go into the "fan" discussion now, but G-d definitely has a purpose in everything that happens. It might not be the team, it might be the current discussion that ensued as a result, or it might be something totally different. We don't know. What we do know is that G-d runs the world in the way he sees fit, and it is up to us to choose to acknowledge it.

As mentioned above, I also know nothing about this team or what might have happened that CM might be referring to as a miracle. I don't see how it really matters if it's seen as a miracle or not.
Don't need chassidus for that one.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Online ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #411 on: March 25, 2018, 12:03:08 PM »
Then we are close to the same page. He could make a team miraculously win in order to reward someone who is undeserving of a more substantive reward or the like
I hope you don't think I was serious about a miracle in my OP.

It is just odd how we look at these things. Remember the post about the plane crash and the one passenger that didn't fly because of Shabbos? Some in that DDMS post called it a miracle. You think those same individuals that called it a miracle would feel the same way if it was a Catholic that didn't fly over Easter?
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #412 on: March 25, 2018, 12:08:25 PM »
It is just odd how we look at these things. Remember the post about the plane crash and the one passenger that didn't fly because of Shabbos? Some in that DDMS post called it a miracle. You think those same individuals that called it a miracle would feel the same way if it was a Catholic that didn't fly over Easter?

That is an interesting question. Maimonides might be alluding to such a question here (last 4 paragraphs).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #413 on: March 25, 2018, 12:16:26 PM »
Maimonides might be alluding to such a question here (last 4 paragraphs).
Interesting read which as you might guess I don't agree with most of it. I do think we all can agree on this.
"Nevertheless, the intent of the Creator of the world is not within the power of man to comprehend, for His ways are not our ways, nor are His thoughts, our thoughts."
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #414 on: March 25, 2018, 12:20:47 PM »
Interesting read which as you might guess I don't agree with most of it. I do think we all can agree on this.
"Nevertheless, the intent of the Creator of the world is not within the power of man to comprehend, for His ways are not our ways, nor are His thoughts, our thoughts."
I don't think you'll have one person disagreeing on that point. Even Stephen Hawking would probably agree on that (once he gets past his arrogance of trying to deny the Creator).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #415 on: March 25, 2018, 12:25:11 PM »
I don't think you'll have one person disagreeing on that point. Even Stephen Hawking would probably agree on that (once he gets past his arrogance of trying to deny the Creator).
Not sure why the uproar over him. He just believes in something else.
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