Author Topic: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?  (Read 2672 times)

Offline hachover

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2017, 07:43:18 PM »
What gives them the same right, because they were tossed out of the neighboring Muslim countries ?

There is no rationale for that view. It just is
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Online TimT

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2017, 07:47:57 PM »
There is no rationale for that view. It just is
Another thing that “just is” is the double standard internationally in regards to Israel & other countries.

Offline davidmal

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2017, 07:48:18 PM »
I'm asking this question sincerely.
What do we gain by having Trump acknowledge Jerusalem as the capital of Israel?

It's not that I don't see some of the benefits.  I'm just wondering if the cons ouweigh the pros.

Hoping to hear some insight into this topic.
We don’t. Means nothing.  Just gain more hate.
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Offline hachover

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2017, 07:53:12 PM »
Another thing that “just is” is the double standard internationally in regards to Israel & other countries.

You think i need to be convinced? Youre just avoiding my question
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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2017, 07:55:35 PM »
Most of them talk out of ignorance or AS. No point trying to convince them.

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2017, 07:59:08 PM »
Most of them talk out of ignorance or AS. No point trying to convince them.

Not that. What are the pros? Where is the gain from this?
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Offline Yammer

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2017, 08:13:50 PM »


Seems most commenting here dont know or arent acknowledging the cons. The mainstream view in this world (whatever your own opinion of it might be) is that Israel has no more of a right to a state than the palestinians, is illegally maintaining control of most of Israel, has no moral high ground over the rabid murderers on the other side, etc etc. Jerusalem is included in the illegal bucket and Israeli sovereignty over it should never be acknowledged, east or west. Now comes a guy who is hated by the whole mainstream world and he wants to make this his issue and draw a line in the sand. All we will get out of this is greater unity of antiIsraeli sentiment at best, and outright condoning of arab violence at worst.

Now I will admit that I dont know the pros of doing this. Can someone please lay that out to me? Who benefits? Who needs this? I dont buy that it cuts down on terrorism because it erases hope of earning Jerusalem through attacks

1) The PA will realize that they must give up on an issue that had plauged the negotiations fo the past 2 decades.

2) The PA technically isn't in a position to negotiate at all. The Ppl would revolt if they gave up on Jerusalem. It's become easier now that the blame is on the US.

3) The fact that the US is firmly behind Israel even when faced with such  overwhelming pressure, will strengthen them in the Region

4) Iran ( and others )got that message loud and clear. Trump is unpredictable, he won't back down and is willing to take significant risk.

5) The UN and EU understand that the current US administration will fight for Israel in every arena. ( Which will slow down the thought of any anti Israel motions )

6) sends the right message to Saudi Arabia aka moderate Muslim Nations that the US won't bow to terror. ( Although they opposed the move, the effect will benefit them )

There are cons as well as you articulated plus

1) it will definitely strengthen BDS movement

2) puts the US at odds again with it's closest allies.


Either way I lost my patience...so here ya go..

Offline hachover

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #67 on: December 06, 2017, 08:28:46 PM »
Thank you. That was very helpful, and if you get a second dose of patience I'd keep reading
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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #68 on: December 06, 2017, 08:34:31 PM »

1) The PA will realize that they must give up on an issue that had plauged the negotiations fo the past 2 decades.
Not going to go through your list. This one sticks out because I agree with you. The problem is some have argued just the opposite that it hasn't been an issue. Any idea what they are talking about?
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Offline moko

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #69 on: December 06, 2017, 08:37:20 PM »
Am I the only one who read this as Neturei Karta?
I did too. Especially the part about iran funding NK...

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #70 on: December 06, 2017, 09:00:47 PM »
Well, you are Satmar ;D
satmer to be correct and don't forget כא כסלו is approaching יום שנשתכך תורת הבעש"ט :)
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #71 on: December 06, 2017, 09:21:44 PM »
Not going to go through your list. This one sticks out because I agree with you. The problem is some have argued just the opposite that it hasn't been an issue. Any idea what they are talking about?

1) It was not part of Oslo or any other agreement.
2) All of East Jerusalem, including Temple Mount, was offered and rejected.
3) It has never been a sticking point in any negotiation.

The onus is on you to say that this was a "major issue". Feel free to provide sources and prove me wrong on any of the above.
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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #72 on: December 06, 2017, 09:26:32 PM »
The onus is on you to say that this was a "major issue". Feel free to provide sources and prove me wrong on any of the above.
The condemnation from the whole Arab world isn't proof it was a matter to be decided?
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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #73 on: December 06, 2017, 09:31:19 PM »
The condemnation from the whole Arab world isn't proof it was a matter to be decided?
They would condemn Netanyahu for sneezing too.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Yammer

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #74 on: December 06, 2017, 09:32:27 PM »
Thank you. That was very helpful, and if you get a second dose of patience I'd keep reading

1) The PA will realize that they must give up on an issue that had plauged the negotiations fo the past 2 decades.

2) The PA technically isn't in a position to negotiate at all. The Ppl would revolt if they gave up on Jerusalem. It's become easier now that the blame is on the US.

3) The fact that the US is firmly behind Israel even when faced with such  overwhelming pressure, will strengthen them in the Region

4) Iran ( and others )got that message loud and clear. Trump is unpredictable, he won't back down and is willing to take significant risk.

5) The UN and EU understand that the current US administration will fight for Israel in every arena. ( Which will slow down the thought of any anti Israel motions )

6) sends the right message to Saudi Arabia aka moderate Muslim Nations that the US won't bow to terror. ( Although they opposed the move, the effect will benefit them )

There are cons as well as you articulated plus

1) it will definitely strengthen BDS movement

2) puts the US at odds again with it's closest allies.


Either way I lost my patience...so here ya go..
Cons

3) The US isolating itself on an issue with Global ramifications. Never a good position to be

4) Our willingness to alone ( or their pride for being ignored ) will make it harder to get allies to move closer to our position on other issues ( Iran, NK ) ( or the opposite as many will claim that the world needs a strong US to lead )

5) #4 will make it easier for China, Russia etc to work against US interests.


There's more but I think this will suffice.