Poll

Is your wife allowed to drive? (Females: Are you allowed to drive?)

Yes
130 (75.1%)
No
43 (24.9%)

Total Members Voted: 173

Author Topic: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?  (Read 121774 times)

Offline henche

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #520 on: January 23, 2018, 11:14:24 AM »
Coming late to conversation.  Is the proof from insurance rates being lower for women than for men?  That's one very specific piece of data.

Have we considered if women may drive less than men, so are in less accidents, but possibly more per mile?

Have we considered if women may be involved in more accidents, but less likely to be at legal fault?

Have we considered if women are more likely to be driving with children in the car, and that when comparing men driving with children to women driving with children, or men driving without children to women driving without children, that the results might be different?

Have we considered that we don't even know what we maybe should consider?


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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #521 on: January 23, 2018, 11:25:02 AM »
Did you miss the title of this thread?
Exactly. You know that on DDF we NEVER actually discuss only what it says in the title!
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yammer

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #522 on: January 25, 2018, 10:34:24 AM »

I recently met a respected Chassidishe person and asked him the question. I hope that I can articulate his response correctly.

He had 2 reasons why a Chassidishe women shouldn't drive.

1) Like many have stated above it starts with the concept of כל כבודה בת מלך פנימה, a Jewish Women is all about modesty therefore the place for a Jewish women is her home. That said society has changed and things are very different in 2018 . The concept however stayed exactly the same. Therefore part of a women's modesty is not to be "out there". While she can come and go freely her primey place is still her home. A women with a car is no longer "a women at home".

2) There are certain jobs/professions that are considered men's jobs. For example Firefighters, Policeman, Construction workers, are considered jobs that are not meant for a (Jewish) Women. It has nothing to do with strength, just the type of job.( Perhaps the word would be masculine type of jobs ( not finness ). While I'm not comparing driving to those jobs the concept is that it's not seen as a woman's place to be.


This was his response. I hope I this shines some light.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #523 on: January 25, 2018, 10:54:00 AM »
This was his response. I hope I this shines some light.
It sure does.
I just found a new supply of forks!

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #524 on: January 25, 2018, 10:55:09 AM »
It sure does.
I had a feeling that would be your reaction.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #525 on: January 25, 2018, 10:56:52 AM »
I had a feeling that would be your reaction.
...and if a priest told me that I would have the same response. Mr Goalpost.  ;)
I just found a new supply of forks!

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #526 on: January 25, 2018, 11:04:56 AM »
...and if a priest told me that I would have the same response. Mr Goalpost.  ;)
That wasn't my point.
I don't disagree with your reaction, but I don't live in that society either.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #527 on: January 25, 2018, 11:09:05 AM »
That wasn't my point.
I was just adding to your point.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline Yammer

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #528 on: January 25, 2018, 11:23:03 AM »
It sure does.
From everyone here you get it?

Offline Dan

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #529 on: January 25, 2018, 11:28:12 AM »
I recently met a respected Chassidishe person and asked him the question. I hope that I can articulate his response correctly.

He had 2 reasons why a Chassidishe women shouldn't drive.

1) Like many have stated above it starts with the concept of כל כבודה בת מלך פנימה, a Jewish Women is all about modesty therefore the place for a Jewish women is her home. That said society has changed and things are very different in 2018 . The concept however stayed exactly the same. Therefore part of a women's modesty is not to be "out there". While she can come and go freely her primey place is still her home. A women with a car is no longer "a women at home".

2) There are certain jobs/professions that are considered men's jobs. For example Firefighters, Policeman, Construction workers, are considered jobs that are not meant for a (Jewish) Women. It has nothing to do with strength, just the type of job.( Perhaps the word would be masculine type of jobs ( not finness ). While I'm not comparing driving to those jobs the concept is that it's not seen as a woman's place to be.


This was his response. I hope I this shines some light.

1. Nowadays people are giving up their cars for Uber and Lyft. Will those be banned as well? Seems like they're the worst of both worlds, freedom and tznius issues.
2. Why is driving comparable to a job?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Yammer

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #530 on: January 25, 2018, 12:28:52 PM »
1. Nowadays people are giving up their cars for Uber and Lyft. Will those be banned as well? Seems like they're the worst of both worlds, freedom and tznius issues.
2. Why is driving comparable to a job?
1) Most Chassidishe women don't have Smartphones ( I believe most schools don't allow it if not needed for business ). Either way it's still not the same as owning a car.

2) It isn't. He used it to explain the concept of not being a womens place.

Offline Yammer

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #531 on: January 25, 2018, 01:59:09 PM »
1. Nowadays people are giving up their cars for Uber and Lyft. Will those be banned as well? Seems like they're the worst of both worlds, freedom and tznius issues.
2. Why is driving comparable to a job?
1) Most Chassidishe women don't have Smartphones ( I believe most schools don't allow it if not needed for business ). Either way it's still not the same as owning a car.

2) It isn't. He used it to explain the concept of not being a womens place.
If I can just add to #1.

You take an Uber when you need to get to a certain destination. When you have a car you just go.

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #532 on: January 29, 2018, 06:04:21 AM »


1) Most Chassidishe women don't have Smartphones ( I believe most schools don't allow it if not needed for business ).


Someone is living in la la land

Offline David Smith

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #533 on: January 29, 2018, 07:12:31 AM »

Someone is living in la la land
The chassidishe women who aren't driving due to it being anathema to societal norms generally don't have smartphones either, if I'm not mistaken.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
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Offline a mirrer

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #534 on: January 29, 2018, 07:29:36 AM »
The chassidishe women who aren't driving due to it being anathema to societal norms generally don't have smartphones either, if I'm not mistaken.
-100 many women won't break the visible rules but will have a smartphone because הנני בחדרי חדרים מי רואני

Offline Yammer

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #535 on: January 29, 2018, 09:59:14 AM »

Someone is living in la la land
-100 many women won't break the visible rules but will have a smartphone because הנני בחדרי חדרים מי רואני
While I have no interest in having in arguing about this, if you take the the majority of Chassidishe Women from BP, Willi, Monsey, KJ ( Lakewood I'm assuming is different but I may be wrong ) the majority of Chassidishe women don't have smartphones.

That said you can start a new thread what categorizes a Chassidishe Women...

I hate an argument about facts when it's not technically possible to prove one way or the other...

I rest my case

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #536 on: January 29, 2018, 10:40:37 AM »
While I have no interest in having in arguing about this, if you take the the majority of Chassidishe Women from BP, Willi, Monsey, KJ ( Lakewood I'm assuming is different but I may be wrong ) the majority of Chassidishe women don't have smartphones.
Can't speak for BP. From DW's interactions with women in WB, and KJ, it is definitely the impression that an overwhelming majority don't have smartphones (an elderly woman in KJ was one of the only exceptions).

I would say from interactions with LKWD (which have been more limited) it's a high percentage that don't have smartphones.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline sky121

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #537 on: January 29, 2018, 10:43:26 AM »

Someone is living in la la land
Many women still don't. And in Israel the rate is even higher.
"Not all who wander are lost"

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #538 on: January 29, 2018, 02:42:30 PM »
Brevity may be the soul of wit, but floridity is its spirit.

Offline Chapshnell

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #539 on: January 29, 2018, 06:48:31 PM »
DONT LOg on so often anymore but I just saw this thread...

I truly believe that non of the hasidic leaders who have banned driving really have a reason for it other than not wanting to change the status quo.

I do know that certain sects keep the rule in order to have a clear reason why not to accept certain families-types of people into their schools.