Poll

Are you frum and do you daven daily?

I'm frum and I (mostly) daven with a minyan 3x a day
72 (59%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) daven without a minyan 3x a day
13 (10.7%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) daven daily
20 (16.4%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) don't daven every day
12 (9.8%)
I'm not frum and I (mostly) daven daily
1 (0.8%)
I'm not frum and I (mostly) don't daven daily
4 (3.3%)

Total Members Voted: 122

Author Topic: Do you Daven?  (Read 4676 times)

Offline cholent

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #75 on: January 10, 2018, 08:11:55 PM »
Here is my theory: Most married males, over time, begin to daven more often. This often occurs as they are raising kids and sending them off to school, and recognize that they should be some form of a role model if they want their kids to get up for minyan in yeshiva.

Consequently, girls grow up in a home where they see their dad davening (him having already evolved), and assume this is the norm. Hence, they expect this as a bare minimum from potential spouses, and are shocked when their husbands in their 20s/30s don't go to minyan.

However, my experience is that davening penetration in the 20s/30s group is quite low, even among people who are 'good' (for lack of a better term) people.
Maybe in your community. Not among the people I know
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Offline iAm

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #76 on: January 10, 2018, 08:14:06 PM »
Maybe in your community. Not among the people I know

What paragraph are you disputing? The first is pretty indisputably true; we can argue about extant and effects.
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Offline TimT

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #77 on: January 10, 2018, 08:14:54 PM »
What paragraph are you disputing?
I would dispute the last one

Offline iAm

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #78 on: January 10, 2018, 08:19:03 PM »
I would dispute the last one

That's fair, and pretty much the whole question of the OP.m; to what extant is my last paragraph correct. And as someone in that age bracket, who's been to some pretty great schools, I'd argue that it's more prevelant than pretty much every female realizes.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #79 on: January 10, 2018, 08:19:14 PM »
Wondering if yiddiskeit is at all discussed prior to marriage with chassidik dating? In the yeshiva/litvish world it is one of the primary issues the couple works out prior to marriage - to make sure they are on same page...

Offline elit

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #80 on: January 10, 2018, 08:19:26 PM »
Rí Shais Taub has covered this on more than 1 occasion. He was very clear that the woman should not be his mashgiach. (Unfortunately I didnít save that issue)
A. shias taub who?
b. there is a far cry between being your spouse's mashgiach which would be counterproductive and saying that your spouse's yiddeshkeit isn't your problem unless it effects your kids
c. the fact that line can be said with out any sort of protest and a lot of what else is being said in this thread is so so sad. we have created a different sect. a cultural Judaism not much different then reform Judaism just with emphasis on different things that are or aren't important.

Offline cholent

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #81 on: January 10, 2018, 08:19:46 PM »
What paragraph are you disputing? The first is pretty indisputably true; we can argue about extant and effects.
Pretty much all of it. What makes the first paragraph indisputably true? Your empirical observations? My empirical observations in my own community and family are equally valid
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Offline wayfe

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2018, 08:21:31 PM »
How do you know he doesnít daven privately ? Has he ever made disparaging remarks about davening ?

He's never made any disparaging remarks about davening.

When we talk about it he admits that he's wrong.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 08:27:48 PM by wayfe »
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Offline iAm

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2018, 08:22:57 PM »
Wondering if yiddiskeit is at all discussed prior to marriage with chassidik dating? In the yeshiva/litvish world it is one of the primary issues the couple works out prior to marriage - to make sure they are on same page...

While it is discussed in the baalabatush world (I think that may be a better term), my experience has been that there's such a disconnect on the davening thing, that it's not broached. It doesnt register on the girls radars at all. The discussions are way more on how to "jointly create a future" (tv at home, what type of schools, what type of camps, etc)
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Offline TimT

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2018, 08:25:29 PM »
He's never make an disparaging remarks about davening.

When we talk about it he admits that he's wrong.
Thats very important. He could very possibly come around on his own.

Speak to a professional about how best to move forward. My own .02

Offline iAm

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #85 on: January 10, 2018, 08:25:57 PM »
Pretty much all of it. What makes the first paragraph indisputably true? Your empirical observations? My empirical observations in my own community and family are equally valid

The first thing is just an observation that humans are dynamic, so over time, an individual and a population will either become more or less observant on a specific thing (I don't want to get into macro observance). And in this specific thing, davening, dynamicism overwhelmingly favors becoming more observant, in large part bec of parenting.
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Offline wayfe

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #86 on: January 10, 2018, 08:26:18 PM »
While it is discussed in the baalabatush world (I think that may be a better term), my experience has been that there's such a disconnect on the davening thing, that it's not broached. It doesnt register on the girls radars at all. The discussions are way more on how to "jointly create a future" (tv at home, what type of schools, what type of camps, etc)

I'll second that.

I had no idea it was an issue hence I was surprised to hear that it is so common. I thought it was only an issue for 'bums' or others going OTD.
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Offline TimT

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #87 on: January 10, 2018, 08:29:19 PM »
A. shias taub who?
b. there is a far cry between being your spouse's mashgiach which would be counterproductive and saying that your spouse's yiddeshkeit isn't your problem unless it effects your kids
c. the fact that line can be said with out any sort of protest and a lot of what else is being said in this thread is so so sad. we have created a different sect. a cultural Judaism not much different then reform Judaism just with emphasis on different things that are or aren't important.
A. Rabbi Shais Taub. He writes a weekly column in the Ami responding to peopleís (90% women) issues and concerns.
C. Weíre talking about someone married with children who Iím assuming would like to remain married.

Offline TimT

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #88 on: January 10, 2018, 08:31:19 PM »
I thought it was only an issue for 'bums' or others going OTD.
Totally not. Itís a stage (nisayon) in life that many good people go through

Offline Abebee

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #89 on: January 10, 2018, 08:33:05 PM »
Putting on tefillin has become the new davening. And even that is eroding.
Unfortunately thats true.