Poll

Are you frum and do you daven daily?

I'm frum and I (mostly) daven with a minyan 3x a day
94 (60.6%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) daven without a minyan 3x a day
19 (12.3%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) daven daily
23 (14.8%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) don't daven every day
13 (8.4%)
I'm not frum and I (mostly) daven daily
2 (1.3%)
I'm not frum and I (mostly) don't daven daily
4 (2.6%)

Total Members Voted: 155

Author Topic: Do you Daven?  (Read 59713 times)

Offline wayfe

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2018, 06:20:06 PM »
Here is my theory: Most married males, over time, begin to daven more often. This often occurs as they are raising kids and sending them off to school, and recognize that they should be some form of a role model if they want their kids to get up for minyan in yeshiva.

Consequently, girls grow up in a home where they see their dad davening (him having already evolved), and assume this is the norm. Hence, they expect this as a bare minimum from potential spouses, and are shocked when their husbands in their 20s/30s don't go to minyan.

However, my experience is that davening penetration in the 20s/30s group is quite low, even among people who are 'good' (for lack of a better term) people.

Sorry, I missed your response.

So this is all just a big cycle of deceit?
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
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Online Dawie

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Offline iAm

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2018, 06:21:16 PM »
I think there are a few categories of people.
There are those that truly don't believe, there are those that deep down believe but are not willing to push themselves, there are those that truly believe and try, but may slip up occasionally.
This is true for all mitzvos, including davening.
If you went through your entire life doing things by rote and not by having a meaningful relationship with God, then the second it gets rough (or you find that there are enough people like you) you will slack off. And maybe not show up/daven at all.
The difference between our father's generation and our generation was that in some sense, lines were drawn more clearly. To deviate would put you in a different group.

I think your three categories are a gross oversimplification. Ill also just emphasize that male higher education does not place much emphasis on davening in general.

There happens to be another issue that you are touching upon, that our education system in general doesnt emphasize "connection" which arguably is at the essence of Yadus. So you have the biggest masmidim in yeshiva, who often feel empty and have no connection to God
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Offline iAm

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2018, 06:22:41 PM »
Sorry, I missed your response.

So this is all just a big cycle of deceit?

lol I dont think there is malicious intent. I just think that there's a misunderstanding of what counts in "The Male Mind" for being a good Jew.
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Online Mordyk

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2018, 06:23:06 PM »
Sorry, I missed your response.

So this is all just a big cycle of deceit?
why deceit? how about a learning process and as people get older they see whats important. or if they need to be an example for their children so it gives them an extra push to do what they believed along along is correct. just all along they slacked off
#TYH

Offline wayfe

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2018, 06:24:50 PM »
The starting point is that men that dont go to minyan, dont view going to minyan as "fake frumness" at all. They just dont do it. There's also the fact that male education (unfortunately or not), does not put nearly as much an emphasis on it as female education.

But regardless of education, if you are willing to sacrifice so much- why wouldn't you just go the whole hog and include davening into your act?
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
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Offline gingyguy

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2018, 06:25:48 PM »
I think your three categories are a gross oversimplification. Ill also just emphasize that male higher education does not place much emphasis on davening in general.

There happens to be another issue that you are touching upon, that our education system in general doesnt emphasize "connection" which arguably is at the essence of Yadus. So you have the biggest masmidim in yeshiva, who often feel empty and have no connection to God
as someone that went through the system i can say that that is not true.while it is possible that boys and girls are taught about the benefits davening on different level, the yeshiva i went to (standard BP litvishe ) stressed it very much
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Offline HBS

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2018, 06:29:00 PM »
But regardless of education, if you are willing to sacrifice so much- why wouldn't you just go the whole hog and include davening into your act?
First of all, what sacrifice? Not eating treif?

You are taught in school that certain things are cardinal sins, i.e., kares for treif... Compared to tefilla btzibur that one equivocates and says it's only derabonnon.
Not staying it's right, but that's how the yetzer hora works.

Offline wayfe

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2018, 06:30:05 PM »
If we define fake frumness as acting frum but not having any relationship with gd (ie not davening to him etc), then I hear what you are saying. Otherwise this needs work....

Better question, why does it bother YOU that he doesn't daven? Just cultural, or you are disturbed by the lack of commitment? Do you daven?

Yes, you got my definition of pseudofrum.

It bothers me for a few reasons:
1. As mentioned we are buying into the exorbitantly expensive frum lifestyle
2. We (personally) have a lot of daven for (not just in a general world peace kind of way....)
3. Like @iAm mentioned, my daughter is nearly 3 and I want her father davening to be a part of life.
4. It makes me not respect him, because I see him as teenager slacking off, not taking his responsibility to his family, to his parenting role seriously
5. I daven on occasion- but then it's not my mitzvah.
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Offline elit

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2018, 06:31:06 PM »
Mods, I hope this allowed.

So I'm part of the small percentage of female DDF'ers and I'd like to pose a poll to you majority holders.

Are you frum and do you daven daily?

The reason I'm asking is that my husband (we're a BY type Chassidish family from BP and pretty much fits in with the DDF male demographic) does not and when I finally reached out for support from a mentor I was told I am in very, very good company.
I'm confused you seem to be asking about davening altogether not minyan but many answers seem to be addressing minyan?

Offline wayfe

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2018, 06:36:26 PM »
First of all, what sacrifice? Not eating treif?
I'm sure there's more, but what stands out is:
Money sacrificed to live this outrageously expensive lifestyle.
The entire concept of dating the way it is in non-religious circles (as a single and even while married).
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
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Offline YossieW

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2018, 06:36:42 PM »
I'm confused you seem to be asking about davening altogether not minyan but many answers seem to be addressing minyan?

that may have been the OP's point but i am sure to many people who do daven a bigger struggle is going to a Minyan especially for Mincha/Maariv

a shul i go to there is a running joke when a certain individual shows up which rarely happens but everyone knows when he does because they give him an aliyah every time he shows up

Offline HBS

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2018, 06:38:24 PM »
I'm sure there's more, but what stands out is:
Money sacrificed to live this outrageously expensive lifestyle.
The entire concept of dating the way it is non-religious circles (as a single and even while married).
When all your friends spend that way you don't notice. Same thing applies to dating. You don't think about it until you see your friends acting like that

Offline sky121

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2018, 06:40:14 PM »
Yes, you got my definition of pseudofrum.

It bothers me for a few reasons:
1. As mentioned we are buying into the exorbitantly expensive frum lifestyle
2. We (personally) have a lot of daven for (not just in a general world peace kind of way....)
3. Like @iAm mentioned, my daughter is nearly 3 and I want her father davening to be a part of life.
4. It makes me not respect him, because I see him as teenager slacking off, not taking his responsibility to his family, to his parenting role seriously
5. I daven on occasion- but then it's not my mitzvah.
Does he talk to Hashem at all? Has he ever? I don't mean davening from a siddur. I just mean talking and praying to Gd.
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Offline elit

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2018, 06:44:24 PM »
that may have been the OP's point but i am sure to many people who do daven a bigger struggle is going to a Minyan especially for Mincha/Maariv

a shul i go to there is a running joke when a certain individual shows up which rarely happens but everyone knows when he does because they give him an aliyah every time he shows up
I understand but IMO they are 2 totally different things.
hard for me personally  to.understand how a person who is more than orthoprax doesn't daven at all on a daily basis

Offline wayfe

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2018, 06:45:45 PM »
Does he talk to Hashem at all? Has he ever? I don't mean davening from a siddur. I just mean talking and praying to Gd.

I wouldn't know.
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Offline sky121

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2018, 06:46:33 PM »
I wouldn't know.
Why? It sounds like something you've clearly spoken about. You'd imagine that would have come up, no?
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline Moshke

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2018, 06:48:52 PM »
I'm sorry but this topic is not and shouldn't be wife's problem.
Your husbands Yiddeshkeit is not your business as long it don't effect the kids or the way you wanna raise ur family.

Offline wayfe

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2018, 06:49:54 PM »
lol I dont think there is malicious intent. I just think that there's a misunderstanding of what counts in "The Male Mind" for being a good Jew.

So what counts?

It just all seems so arbitrary...
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
— Richard Feynman