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1) The Holocaust happened because Jews were unable to obtain guns due to Poland's notoriously strict gun laws.
2) The left wants an absolute gun ban - no guns at all, any type, for anyone, ever.
3) The right wants mass shootings, especially school shootings.
4) Everyone agrees we need to require better background checks and use more discretion in handing out gun licenses.
4.a The right cannot pass such legislation because it is a slippery slope to banning all guns, everywhere, for everyone.
4.b The left cannot pass such legislation because it is not enough.
5)  Every school in the US should have metal detectors at the entrance, be surrounded by a 30' cement wall and have armed guards in every classroom and hallway. The more guns around kids the better.
6) 7 year olds going through half an hour of security theater every day just to go to school is a perfectly normal and acceptable solution.
7) The second amendment entitles every US citizen to an AR-15.
8 ) Laws don't prevent crimes.
9) Guns don't kill people
10) Stats prove my side of the argument 100% correct. (D)
11) Stats prove my side of the argument 100% correct  (R)

Author Topic: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)  (Read 200380 times)

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1320 on: April 24, 2018, 07:42:41 AM »
Guns in America: For every criminal killed in self-defense, 34 innocent people die
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/19/guns-in-america-for-every-criminal-killed-in-self-defense-34-innocent-people-die/
http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable15.pdf
Hard to believe there are more than double the amount of suicides as homicides

Online aygart

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1321 on: April 24, 2018, 08:04:05 AM »
Guns in America: For every criminal killed in self-defense, 34 innocent people die
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/19/guns-in-america-for-every-criminal-killed-in-self-defense-34-innocent-people-die/
http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable15.pdf
We are mostly in agreement on this topic but the statistic you quote is ridiculous and meaningless. Someone using a gun in self defense is not looking to kill. A gun can save lives without being used at all but cannot take a life without killing.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1322 on: April 24, 2018, 10:12:15 AM »
We are mostly in agreement on this topic but the statistic you quote is ridiculous and meaningless. Someone using a gun in self defense is not looking to kill. A gun can save lives without being used at all but cannot take a life without killing.
The article is talking about lives lost. That has nothing to do with the idiotic statement you know who made.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ssvarc

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1323 on: April 24, 2018, 10:14:26 AM »
Here is the idiotic claim that there is no proof to:@aygart is the one who originally asked you to back it up, not me.Others have also asked you to back it up but you refused to. You can't and you know it. Has Google failed you? This is what happens when you have no real knowledge of the subject being discussed. You don't see me going around claiming knowledge of the Torah just because I can use Google.

As usual the truth and yourself are like ships passing in the night.

When @aygart questioned it (as opposed to you, someone who doesn't bring proof to his assertions) I responded. Here is the back and forth.


3. What is your source that more civilians are saved by guns than murdered?






3. A fair question. Here is one link: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/344415/news-we-never-hear-guns-save-lives-thomas-sowell Try googling "how many lives are saved by guns" and read through several articles.




3. need to review that.

When you felt that wasn't good enough, I chided you with the following.

I showed a learned opinion written by well known scholar, who has published widely on economics and political science (he's an educated person with statistics [1]), and provided the Google keywords where anyone can start to educate themselves as well.

The facts are right there, being quoted in condensed form by a renowned scholar, and that exact search pulls up several articles that quote specific sources (surveys, crime statistics, etc.).

I'm sorry, but I won't spoon feed you.

And now I need to run, Shabbos is coming.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell

So, as it's clear to anyone who reads the thread, when others ask legitimate questions I'm willing to answer and point them to resources.

What I refuse is your double standard, where you assert, assert, assert, and then demand interrogations of every countervailing assertion.

Huff and puff, my friend, huff and puff.

When you'll grow up, grow a pair and be willing to bring proof for your claims, let me know.




Online avromie7

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1324 on: April 24, 2018, 10:22:00 AM »
The article is talking about lives lost. That has nothing to do with the idiotic statement you know who made.
The number of people killed by defensive uses of guns is irrelevant. According to the CDC, the number of defensive uses of firearms, is around 10,000 times that number, so for every person killed in a defensive shooting, around 10,000 others used a gun for defensive purposes without killing anyone, that's also more that 200 times the number of people murdered by guns.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1325 on: April 24, 2018, 10:33:48 AM »
Saying facts are right there is meaningless when there are not. After you posted that nonsense you were still pressed by me and others to back it up which you still have not. Here is someone that agrees with you almost 100% but says your claim is bogus.
3. A fair question. Here is one link: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/344415/news-we-never-hear-guns-save-lives-thomas-sowell Try googling "how many lives are saved by guns" and read through several articles.
Not one fact or study to back up the claims. You claim guns have saved more lives than murders. Were are the facts?
+1 I've come across that claim numerous times, but I didn't quote it because there seems to be no proof to it. I've yet to come across any proof that the numbers going around have any basis.
Others want your idiotic claim backed up. So either back it up or do us all a favor and troll another thread from your mommy's basement.  :P
I just found a new supply of forks!

Online avromie7

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1326 on: April 24, 2018, 10:45:08 AM »
Others want your idiotic claim backed up.
I just told you multiple times, and even brought an article explaining that the CDC had proof to this and just released it.

ETA: is there a reason you keep ignoring my proof?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Online aygart

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1327 on: April 24, 2018, 11:11:39 AM »
The article is talking about lives lost. That has nothing to do with the idiotic statement you know who made.
It is not any less idiotic
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1328 on: April 24, 2018, 11:18:41 AM »
It is not any less idiotic
It is just showing deaths. Look at the suicides by guns.
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Online aygart

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1329 on: April 24, 2018, 11:19:40 AM »
It is just showing deaths. Look at the suicides by guns.
So it is showing an irrelevant and idiotic thing designed to mislead.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1330 on: April 24, 2018, 11:21:58 AM »
So it is showing an irrelevant and idiotic thing designed to mislead.
You dispute the amount of suicides committed with guns?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Online aygart

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1331 on: April 24, 2018, 11:33:25 AM »
You dispute the amount of suicides committed with guns?
Where did you see that in what I wrote?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1332 on: April 24, 2018, 11:56:48 AM »
Where did you see that in what I wrote?
So it is showing an irrelevant and idiotic thing designed to mislead.
I don't think the massive amount of suicide deaths by guns is idiotic or misleading unless you are disputing the numbers. Are you?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ssvarc

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1333 on: April 24, 2018, 08:01:21 PM »
I don't think the massive amount of suicide deaths by guns is idiotic or misleading unless you are disputing the numbers. Are you?
Huff and puff.

Suicides are irrelevant to a discussion of guns, not irrelevant to a discussion of issues in society.

Huff and puff.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1334 on: April 24, 2018, 08:13:34 PM »
Huff and puff.

Suicides are irrelevant to a discussion of guns, not irrelevant to a discussion of issues in society.

Huff and puff.
The one with the idiotic claim is back.  ::)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ssvarc

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1335 on: April 25, 2018, 11:06:01 AM »
The one with the logical counterclaim to my unsupported assertions is back. Quick, I need to insult, obfuscate, and wave my hands. Maybe no-one will call me on it.

FTFY.

A toothless bear is a Gummy Bear.

What's a toothless wolf? The Huff?

Which one of our civil rights are you going after next? Free speech? (You seem to have the propensity to stifle certain speech.)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1336 on: April 25, 2018, 11:11:28 AM »
FTFY.

A toothless bear is a Gummy Bear.

What's a toothless wolf? The Huff?

Which one of our civil rights are you going after next? Free speech? (You seem to have the propensity to stifle certain speech.)
The one with the idiotic claim is back.  ::)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline Chief Rabbi of New York

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Show Some Respect for Me, I am The Chief Rabbi of New York :)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1338 on: April 25, 2018, 11:36:50 AM »
@avromie7 @ssvarc @ChaimMoskowitz

remember to be nice to each other
As soon as you know who backs up the idiotic claim that at least two other members besides myself asked him to.  :)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Online avromie7

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #1339 on: April 25, 2018, 11:44:45 AM »
As soon as you know who backs up the idiotic claim that at least two other members besides myself asked him to.  :)
I just told you multiple times, and even brought an article explaining that the CDC had proof to this and just released it.

ETA: is there a reason you keep ignoring my proof?
BUMP
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.