Yeshiva Magen David Accidentally Hires Trans Teacher

[NTorch]

I think we should call him Zlata 

Am I the only one who does not get this?

[aygart]

Am I the only one who does not get this?

Probably not, but if we would then he would be A Boy Named Zlata.

[Moshe Green]

Am I the only one who does not get this?

me too (woops, did i just open a pandoras box?)
also no connection with this thread but:
if you can identify with whatever gender you want, can you also identify at whatever age you want, for example, for life insurance ("I identify as a 25 year old" when your really 95) or car insurance ("I identify as a 45 year old man whos been driving for 30 years" when in reality your a 16 year old girl who does drag races with her friends)?
If yes, we can save tons of money for our cash strapped families.

[haltkup]

This is a very sensitive situation. Hate the sin not the sinner, but in no way should there be any subtle approval or even acceptance that what they are are doing is ok.

This.

Calling someone masquerading as a woman by a female name is borderline. Tricky stuff here. If this guy wasn’t Jewish it would be simpler.

No if you are an Orthodox Jew it is not borderline or tricky, not even an ounce of recognition as validating this lifestyle ruins the purity of our nation.

[NTorch]

This.No if you are an Orthodox Jew it is not borderline or tricky, not even an ounce of recognition as validating this lifestyle ruins the purity of our nation.

I once heard a shiur on medical ethics where the following questions was posed to the Rav. A patient is suicidal because the patient believes that the patient is not the gender of birth and wants gender reassignment surgery. The patient's mental health professional has assessed the situation and believes that the patient will in fact attempt suicide if the surgery is not performed. The surgeon (or local law, I can't remember which) requires the approval of the mental health professional before performing the surgery. Can the frum mental health professional write the letter?

I believe the answer was yes as it would save the life of the patient.

[yr]

I once heard a shiur on medical ethics where the following questions was posed to the Rav. A patient is suicidal because the patient believes that the patient is not the gender of birth and wants gender reassignment surgery. The patient's mental health professional has assessed the situation and believes that the patient will in fact attempt suicide if the surgery is not performed. The surgeon (or local law, I can't remember which) requires the approval of the mental health professional before performing the surgery. Can the frum mental health professional write the letter?

I believe the answer was yes as it would save the life of the patient.

What if the case was the same except instead of gender reassignment, the patient wanted both arms amputated?

[ExGingi]

Probably not, but if we would then he would be A Boy Named Zlata.

Time to move this to the dissection thread?

Did you choose Zlata to imply what he probably walked away with (Zlata being the Slavic version of the Yiddish Golda or Hebrew Zehava)?

[Pony]

This.No if you are an Orthodox Jew it is not borderline or tricky, not even an ounce of recognition as validating this lifestyle ruins the purity of our nation.

https://MyTAT.me/v38625

Listen starting at 12:28

[Luvtotravel]

I would need to see proof before believing…..

username checks out

[Yehuda57]

Am I the only one who does not get this?

me too

Time to move this to the dissection thread?

Did you choose Zlata to imply what he probably walked away with (Zlata being the Slavic version of the Yiddish Golda or Hebrew Zehava)?

[imayid2]

I once heard a shiur on medical ethics where the following questions was posed to the Rav. A patient is suicidal because the patient believes that the patient is not the gender of birth and wants gender reassignment surgery. The patient's mental health professional has assessed the situation and believes that the patient will in fact attempt suicide if the surgery is not performed. The surgeon (or local law, I can't remember which) requires the approval of the mental health professional before performing the surgery. Can the frum mental health professional write the letter?

I believe the answer was yes as it would save the life of the patient.

This question is discussed by Rav Zilbershtein in שיעורי תורה לרופאים in regards to the doctors actually performing the surgery and his answer is a resounding no. Your case is different though.

[imayid2]

Is there any responsa on whether there is an issue calling someone with pronouns they weren't born with?

This is as close as we’ll get (pun intended).


It’s unfortunately a question which needs to be dealt in these cases

I heard that there was a case in England where the husband a "rabbi" underwent a transformation and then was getting divorced. There was a major fight over who gets to keep the shaitels.

[Ver hut gazugt]

I once heard a shiur on medical ethics where the following questions was posed to the Rav. A patient is suicidal because the patient believes that the patient is not the gender of birth and wants gender reassignment surgery. The patient's mental health professional has assessed the situation and believes that the patient will in fact attempt suicide if the surgery is not performed. The surgeon (or local law, I can't remember which) requires the approval of the mental health professional before performing the surgery. Can the frum mental health professional write the letter?

I believe the answer was yes as it would save the life of the patient.

the Gemara brings a case where there is a man who is literally dying because he wants a specific girl and it discusses if we can make some sort of workaround so the guy does not die. The Gemara concludes that we may not, because we cannot degrade Jewish women.

[S209]

the Gemara brings a case where there is a man who is literally dying because he wants a specific girl and it discusses if we can make some sort of workaround so the guy does not die. The Gemara concludes that we may not, because we cannot degrade Jewish women.

Sanhedrin 75A, it ends off that they could not even speak without seeing each other. How is this Gemara relevant?

[Ver hut gazugt]

Sanhedrin 75A, it ends off that they could not even speak without seeing each other. How is this Gemara relevant?

not 100% sure, was trying to show that even in a case of danger does not make everything permitted and perhaps even though that case is with someone else the idea is similar. So in this case would we permit someone to degrade themselves?

[saw50st8]

This is a very sensitive situation. Hate the sin not the sinner, but in no way should there be any subtle approval or even acceptance that what they are are doing is ok. Calling someone masquerading as a woman by a female name is borderline. Tricky stuff here. If this guy wasn’t Jewish it would be simpler.

That isn't what I've been told when I asked. I was told to treat individuals respectfully and call them by the name and pronouns of their choosing. I'm curious if anyone else has asked this question to a posek rather than assuming.

[~King Lake~]

I once heard a shiur on medical ethics where the following questions was posed to the Rav. A patient is suicidal because the patient believes that the patient is not the gender of birth and wants gender reassignment surgery. The patient's mental health professional has assessed the situation and believes that the patient will in fact attempt suicide if the surgery is not performed. The surgeon (or local law, I can't remember which) requires the approval of the mental health professional before performing the surgery. Can the frum mental health professional write the letter?

I believe the answer was yes as it would save the life of the patient.

Intresting, since Gilui Aroyes is 1 of the Gimmel Chamuros

[imayid2]

That isn't what I've been told when I asked. I was told to treat individuals respectfully and call them by the name and pronouns of their choosing. I'm curious if anyone else has asked this question to a posek rather than assuming.

I would think the stated reasoning here is something to keep in mind, though admittedly not a perfect analogy. Obviously something this gray will elicit different responses from different poskim.

[imayid2]

Intresting, since Gilui Aroyes is 1 of the Gimmel Chamuros

It’s not that clear cut גילוי עריות.

[NTorch]

I once heard a shiur on medical ethics where the following questions was posed to the Rav. A patient is suicidal because the patient believes that the patient is not the gender of birth and wants gender reassignment surgery. The patient's mental health professional has assessed the situation and believes that the patient will in fact attempt suicide if the surgery is not performed. The surgeon (or local law, I can't remember which) requires the approval of the mental health professional before performing the surgery. Can the frum mental health professional write the letter?

I believe the answer was yes as it would save the life of the patient.

Intresting, since Gilui Aroyes is 1 of the Gimmel Chamuros

Two quick points:

(1) - The mental health professional is writing a letter, so if this was a problem at most its Mesayeah
(2) - The surgery which would be performed is not Gilui Arayos. That's not to say that its not a different problem, but I dont see how the surgery can be that act.