Law School

[EJB]

Lol, true for most jobs though. Unless you are a teacher or something there isn't much of a difference summer or not...

Or have a job that lets you take off for the summer @ 60%. Some biglaw places have policies like this, right? I considered working for a firm that had a policy like this.

[shiframeir]

Anyone have any thoughts on the do's and donts of a 1st year associate at a V40 firm in NY?

so much to say, but most important is to try your best to care about your job (like its Torah, and as if u might lose it tomorrow) and every client you work for. Try to solve any problems yourself any way you can, and think out of the box and if u think u have a reasonable possible solution, raise it with your superiors. Make an effort for people to notice that you work weekends (other than shabbos if that applies to you) and arent taking it easy when u should be making up for a weekly vacation. print out everything you plan to send and read it in color print (redline and clean). dont send emails to clients early on before getting sign off from superiors. Don't steal coffee cups, chocolate mixes or plastic utensils

[thaber]

Anyone have any thoughts on the do's and donts of a 1st year associate at a V40 firm in NY?

http://www.dailylawyertips.com/

[henche]

Anyone have any thoughts on the do's and donts of a 1st year associate at a V40 firm in NY?

Make the buck stop at you. 

E.g. If you've seen a document, it's as perfect as you can make it.  If you were asked to do something, you did it or made sure it was done, and if you didn't know how, you asked someone how and then did it. If you needed more substantive knowledge for the task, you already looked it up and decided on your answer before you ask for confirmation.

The value you add over a paralegal is that commitment to getting it done and right. 

[Slims]

Thank you for all your comments!

[gozalim]

Make the buck stop at you. 

E.g. If you've seen a document, it's as perfect as you can make it.  If you were asked to do something, you did it or made sure it was done, and if you didn't know how, you asked someone how and then did it. If you needed more substantive knowledge for the task, you already looked it up and decided on your answer before you ask for confirmation.

The value you add over a paralegal is that commitment to getting it done and right. 

probably true in any profession

[CS91]

Thank you for all your comments!

Always make sure to record your time by when it's due. I know my firm gets really upset when people don't. Don't think submitting time late is a good way to start.

[shiframeir]

this was a surprisingly good article. http://abovethelaw.com/2015/12/5-reasons-these-biglaw-bonuses-suck/?rf=1

[EJB]

this was a surprisingly good article. http://abovethelaw.com/2015/12/5-reasons-these-biglaw-bonuses-suck/?rf=1

IMO it wreaks  of entitlement. Salaries are and have always been a function of supply and demand. Just because your costs (i.e. tuition, COL) are higher doesn't mean you should get paid more. Just because your billing rate increases doesn't mean you should get paid more. If you think you're underpaid, find a new profession.

[henche]

IMO it wreaks  of entitlement. Salaries are and have always been a function of supply and demand. Just because your costs (i.e. tuition, COL) are higher doesn't mean you should get paid more. Just because your billing rate increases doesn't mean you should get paid more. If you think you're underpaid, find a new profession.

eh, it doesn't reek of anything, since the author is not a biglaw associate.

It's part of the game--ATL writes articles, and that is part of the economy.

[EJB]

eh, it doesn't reek of anything, since the author is not a biglaw associate.

It's part of the game--ATL writes articles, and that is part of the economy.

Not talking about the author. Talking about the arguments.

[henche]

Not talking about the author. Talking about the arguments.

The arguments are part of the game.  Labor drives up pay by complaining in public about their employers' greediness.  They aren't any more "entitled" than the employers are "greedy." Both are just playing the roles they need, to get to the result they want.

You could say "if partners think their associates are too entitled, they could hire plumbers to draft LPAs." But that's silly--associates don't want to be plumbers, and partners don't want to hire plumbers. And they want to say all the right stuff to get themselves a bigger slice of the biglaw pie.

[EJB]

The arguments are part of the game.  Labor drives up pay by complaining in public about their employers' greediness.  They aren't any more "entitled" than the employers are "greedy." Both are just playing the roles they need, to get to the result they want.

So it's jealousy, not greed. Much better. All in all, I don't think the market is 20% better than it was in 2007. And I don't think the other top professions have increased their salaries 20% since 2007 (aside for tech and startups).

You could say "if partners think their associates are too entitled, they could hire plumbers to draft LPAs." But that's silly--associates don't want to be plumbers, and partners don't want to hire plumbers. And they want to say all the right stuff to get themselves a bigger slice of the biglaw pie.

No one's saying that

[henche]

So it's jealousy, not greed. Much better. All in all, I don't think the market is 20% better than it was in 2007. And I don't think the other top professions have increased their salaries 20% since 2007 (aside for tech and startups).

Not sure why it's jealousy or greed. I don't usually think of employers or employees who want to earn more money as definitionally greedy.

To be clear: law firm compensation has gone down since 2007.  And when we talk about the market, we only mean the law firm market, which is currently booming like nobody's business. If any mid-level is looking for a lateral, and wants me to get a referral bonus, pm me.

[EJB]

To be clear: law firm compensation has gone down since 2007.  And when we talk about the market, we only mean the law firm market, which is currently booming like nobody's business. If any mid-level is looking for a lateral, and wants me to get a referral bonus, pm me.

I thought most of the recent growth was from M&A, not litigation. Isn't that more of a short term boom (I.e bonuses) than long term (increased raises)? And out of curiosity, how much is "booming like nobody's business?"

[henche]

I thought most of the recent growth was from M&A, not litigation. Isn't that more of a short term boom (I.e bonuses) than long term (increased raises)? And out of curiosity, how much is "booming like nobody's business?"

Yes, it's corporate driving it. So what?

We've been really busy for a long time now. 

[CS91]

So it's jealousy, not greed. Much better. All in all, I don't think the market is 20% better than it was in 2007. And I don't think the other top professions have increased their salaries 20% since 2007 (aside for tech and startups).

I hear both sides. I'd obviously love for NY to go to 190k, and I do think it's a bit ridiculous that salaries haven't budged since 2007, especially considering the fact that many firms have been really strong the past couple of years. On the other hand, any time I see an article like this break, I always hope that none of my friends that aren't in Big Law see it because they would just think of me as a shmuk for asking for a raise when first year associates are making more than triple compared to what some people are getting paid at entry level jobs. I know, different industry, graduate school, etc., but it still breeds bitterness from the other side.

[shiframeir]

Yes, it's corporate driving it. So what?

We've been really busy for a long time now.

yup, and if henche's firm refuses u, my firm will take u (pm me second).

[EJB]

yup, and if henche's firm refuses u, my firm will take u (pm me second).

I can guarantee you they won't . Unless they need someone to optimize their billing rates.

[henche]

I hear both sides. I'd obviously love for NY to go to 190k, and I do think it's a bit ridiculous that salaries haven't budged since 2007, especially considering the fact that many firms have been really strong the past couple of years. On the other hand, any time I see an article like this break, I always hope that none of my friends that aren't in Big Law see it because they would just think of me as a shmuk for asking for a raise when first year associates are making more than triple compared to what some people are getting paid at entry level jobs. I know, different industry, graduate school, etc., but it still breeds bitterness from the other side.

Most biglaw associates barely stay long enough to pay down their debt, if that.  The other side only sees second years pulling 195, but doesn't see the whomping tax bill, the easy 200k of debt, and the nondeductibilty of student loan--interest or principal--once you hit these numbers.